Bills Blog 10-25
 

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...ff-update.html

All I can say is

Booo.

That's a big disappointment. I was hoping one day to make it out there for a live broadcast.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Wow, I wonder what the reason is for this.

This would happen the year that I finally decide to go up there. :/

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Dear FIRST Teams,

We made an impulse decision to take away something a lot of people liked. We won't give you a reason.

Sincerely, FIRST HQ.

Are we actually supposed to be okay with that?

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Really? This sucks. Even though we are on the west coast and would never get a chance to go, it being live was all the fun of it.

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Odds are, that if the event is pre-recorded, it will be recorded as if it were a live event. I doubt that we'll be able to see much of a difference over the stream.

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I'm going to miss the clapping seal...

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I doubt they will record it with mass groups of students because that would give away the game to entire groups of teams early.

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As someone who would likely never attend the live kick-off, I'm in favor of this decision. If I'm just going to watch it on a screen some where, I'd prefer a more polished production. I'm sure it saves a significant amount of stress and pressure associated with putting together a live show. I think these two things are worth the lack of watching the show live, in-person for the 1% of FIRSTers.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

A more polished production? I don't remember ever having any issues with the live kickoff's quality.

Overall, pretty lame of FIRST. Might make for a better demo of the game. Was hoping to get up to Manchester some year though.

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I guess I can scratch "go to kickoff in NH" from my bucket list.

As Bill said, teams can still go for a screening - but I can watch TV at home.

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I agree. I've both watched the broadcast of kick-off and attended the actual event, and honestly I don't think pre-recording it is a bad idea. The reality is that it probably requires less stress and time preparation to film kick-off ahead of time; if this is something first needs to do to allocate their valuable time to something else, I'm okay with that.

Live kick-off was a special event, but it's not the worst of losses, especially if the quality of production rises.

that said, I do think it would be fair for FIRST to give us all a reason for the change.

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I wonder if the decision was based off NASA support to broadcast the event. NASA might have ran into a scheduling problem with getting a live team there and ready to broadcast the event live.

These might have been their options with NASA:

A) Pre-record the event and have NASA broadcast it on their network the day of.

B) Keep live event, but lose the ability for NASA to live broadcast it.

If thats true then I can easily see why FIRST chose option B.

Sadly, I may have to cross out "Attend live FIRST broadcast" from my list. Although if FIRST still keeps the workshops and the get together at Dean's house the night before it may still remain on my list.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

In an outside discussion, we came to similar conclusions - but one question still remained, if this were the reason, why not just say it outright?

If BB said something like "Due to conflicts with NASA's Broadcasting Schedule, we will be pre-recording the 2012 FRC Kick-off" I think most of us wouldn't have an issue.

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There was never a time I thought the kickoff was unpolished or needed better production, but if they now have a couple weeks to perfect and edit the show, it has to be better, right?

While it would be nice to know all the reasons for the decision, the Will.i.am concert has taught me to keep an open mind in these issues and not jump to conclusions.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

XaulZan, you may have just hit on something with the reference to the concert.

Remember what the concert became? A TV special. I wonder if, by pre-recording the Kickoff, they are really looking into preparing for another one. But, c'mon, FIRST! If that's the reason, just tell us if you can! Otherwise, we'll think it's just another of those late-night, caffeine-fueled decisions that teams so commonly make that may or may not work.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

The game portion has been pre-recorded for a couple of years now.
The crowd in Manchester watch the big screen along with everyone else.

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Maybe they couldn't fit the aquarium that makes up the 2012 field on the stage? Oops, I've said too much. :yikes:

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To me the best part of kickoff is the being able to see a real field right away... and the Founders Reception. Take those away, and i'll stick to a local kickoff.

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If I have to watch a commercial during kick-off because it's on TV, I will more than likely put a hole in that TV and then cry in a corner.

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It isn't Kickoff until Blair asks a couple of rookies what they think of the game and gets this deer-in-the-headlights "What have I gotten myself into!?" stare in return. :(

I'm disappointed, but probably spoiled being from the Northeast. (I also feel kind of old because this is my 3rd kickoff where NH is covered in politicians!)

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I'm not thinking of having the Kickoff be the special. But why not put the Kickoff in a special covering the entire season? It may just work really well to have access to the prerecordings.

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This may be the answer -- the NH primary date hasn't been announced but expected to be Jan 10th. It may take some pressure off trying to get hotel rooms. Or traffic. Or something.

But is the new game field going to be "live"?

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Could it be because they don't think the game is as 'dope' this year, and want to avoid any live celebrity reactions indicating so?

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<insert kicking and whining over this>


Darn you American politics.

-Nick

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Perhaps NASA isn't going to be covering it at all anymore and the recent popularity boom of FIRST has been picked up by network television and they want to broadcast it :p

EDIT: Or it could be that NASA laid off all the people that used to film it because they're out of money :yikes:

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

As someone who has seen a fair share of live kickoffs in Manchester, I am disappointed.

However, I was also lucky enough to begin with to reside in the Northeastern part of the country. It made getting there very easy, and therefore convenient. The "game reveal" portions of the broadcast have been pre-recorded for a few years anyway. When you really think about it, the only difference will be the speeches portion of the broadcast. Hopefully with some hindsight and less "pressure" we'll see even more polish.

Overall take: Disappointed, but can deal.

-Brando

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Will teams that visit the on site broadcast have access to the full field to take measurements and close up pictures to share with the rest of us? The first hand info came in handy at times...

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FIRST could fix this by providing a single drawing of the field with actual pertinent measurements for once (and not detailed drawings at the part level)... Oh boy, that would be nice... I'm clearly wishing for too much though :rolleyes:

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A CAD file of the full field as part of the manual? Preposterous!

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What about just posting a .stp of the field on their website?

Or would that make too much sense.

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I'd prefer a .stp file as well, but I was thinking a .pdf as there are quite a few teams that don't CAD, and the dad's that usually build our field don't know how to run CAD.

But yeah, why not both? We can dream....

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I sometimes dream about what this would be like. These are fantastic dreams.

-Brando

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My entirely uninformed guess is that the cost of the satellite uplink probably became prohibitive.

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Well, I'm fairly sure that a 3D model of the field has to exist somewhere - or at least that's where I'd guess they make 2D drawings from, so why not post up that model as a .STP?

As far as 2D PDF drawings go, I believe they're drawn so that you can build the field, not to find critical dimensions. This could be solved by supplying a supplemental drawing titled 'critical dimensions' that shows all of the dimensions relevant to game play.

But that would probably make too much sense.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Yeah, that's what gets me. They clearly have it modeled, is it too much to just do a "save as > .stp > upload"?

Bill Miller easily spent an hour in our pits at Vegas 2010 talking to me about what we though FIRST could do better. I only brought up a few points, and this was one of them for easily 15 minutes straight. He seemed very understanding and even agreed, so they can't say they're not aware of the demand.

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As a member of a team in Minnesota, this doesn't really affect me too much. I don't really sympathize with anyone when they say they now won't get to see the full field for real because we never were able to see the whole thing until competition unless we built one ourselves.

However in regards to the CAD file of the field, I thought there already has been one for at least the past two years. I forget where the download is (nevermind, found it), but in the same place where we downloaded the CAD files of the KOP, there were files for the field. Maybe these aren't official though?
http://www.catalogds.com/db/service?d=first&c=browse

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

There was a model of the FRC 2011 field for PRO/E as part of their (PTC) library of part models for FIRST. http://www.catalogds.com/db/service?d=first&c=browse

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Alex and Magic, these models aren't available on kickoff (or even with a time near kickoff). That's where the real pain is, during the first few days of design and you want to know what the field dimensions are. We have to have a few talented kids spend an hour or so deciphering the official field drawings to get us numbers to work with, it's just a waste.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

While I have shared the same frustration pointed out in the last few posts, I'd argue that this is good "real world" experience. Often times in industry, you'll have customer requirements/installation drawings, but no easily accessible 3D models of your product installation. You're given all the information you need, it's just not tied up in a pretty package with a bow on it.

That being said, if they've got the 3D model made, it makes sense to upload it for general use. The nice customers have installation CAD they share with you! :)

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I am not really too upset. Let them try it this way they may add some things that we will come to like over the live stream.

As far as the field goes PTC had the files for the field up right away this year. I think I may have even opened it around the day after kickoff, because I was dropping some random base designs in there, KOP parts were also up. So I am not sure if SolidWorks does anything special like PTC does but it is a big bonus for all Pro/E teams.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

I was quite upset.

I was planning on attending this year, however now.... I don't think so.

Same thing as said before, I could understand, but tell me why!

Will HQ ever learn....

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They don't want to accidentally drop one of the cameras into the water and ruin the live feed. It's obvious.

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I'm really not going to miss the "live" part of the broadcast, I understand how the teams close by would be very disappointed but the vast majority of team members will never be able to attend. Perhaps it can be a better overall show.

I agree that I would like to learn more about why but perhaps they just wanted to get this news out quickly so teams could plan accordingly and the why will come later in a more polished way.

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And so comes the Amazonification of FRC.

But in all seriousness, I can never wait for the live feed to be over so I could start working on the robot anyway.

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This is true, plus the seats in NH are terribly uncomfortable.

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While some aspects of the Manchester Kickoff were kind of a pain, I can't see how it's actually going to be improved for local teams. You know the time in the broadcast when they finally unveil the game and everyone goes graciously nuts? I'll be in the car or waiting in line in Manchester to get our KoP. Yeah.

Trying to Help
attending BAE GSR 2012

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

1. We used to record the live feed, cut out most of the speeches, and watch it as a team a few hours later (dedicated members and mentors would watch the whole thing live). The pre-recording isn't a big loss to us, but an explanation might be nice.

2. Critical Dimensions would be really nice. We were super confused this year to find that the peg heights weren't spelled out anywhere. It basically said "If you cut these pieces of PVC, and insert them into T's to the same depth we did, you will end up with a rack of the correct size".

3. Vex releases a full field model, in STEP format and a Solidworks eDrawing ( a CAD viewer + CAD file in a single executable). The eDrawing even includes tools to measure things, without even having CAD software. Just saying, FIRST could learn a few things from Vex.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

I totally agree with the field dimensions. Our team changed our peg lengths about twice before the end of the season and they were still wrong. The layout for where to place duct tape was also pretty confusing.

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My first thought was Boooo... I finally move back to NE AND am old enough to attend the founders reception, and though I did get to see it "live" the last two years, I was still looking forward to it as much as Christmas!!

But then reality set in and I realized I survived 14 years in FIRST without going to a Live Kickoff, and remembered that when I was in high school and college we used to send our team "adults" to the kickoff and would wait eagerly by the phone for kickoff to be over and stand by a FAX machine awaiting the fax of our next six weeks. 4-9 hours later we would have our KOP. I think while I was in college we watched it on a terrible buffering computer screen. Now we are spoiled with these huge broadcast rooms and a live audience to "interact" with, and a recording of the event so we can watch it as many times as we want.

Will it be different? yeah. But Im in the boat of lets wait and see what happens. Maybe it will save us all some $$, maybe it will be better quality, maybe there will be some surprises in store... who knows? Im sure we will find out soon enough.

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I booked a room yesterday at the Holiday Inn next to the Airport Diner. Rooms are always tight when it's a primary year. You just have to deal with it.

Not happy with this decision.

Are they dumping the workshops also?

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Yeah maybe you couldn't go, but it didn't mean we all didn't benefit from someone else having a live interaction with the field. I don't know if they still plan on having a field there, but if they do not, that would be the biggest loss. Often the "first impressions" of the field are cataloged by several people on CD. We are all able to take them in and maybe even make some educated guesses on a design strategy based off a simple measurement, or material type, etc.

Also, local kickoffs are becoming larger and better year after year. Many of them now also have some version of a field to interact with. I still think we all benefited from seeing those first pictures, etc. Hopefully that tradition will continue.

-Brando

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Hotel and flight booked weeks ago...
I was looking forward to a kickoff like the ones I witnessed during the webcast the last few years.
My expectations are that the workshops will still happen, the founder's reception will still take place at Dean's house, and the field will still be set up so teams can interact with it and take measurements. If I get to still experience those things, sitting in front of a screen on Saturday morning won't be too much of a letdown. If other things change, that's a different story, because I feel these decisions should have been made before teams were allowed to sign up for the founder's reception on TIMS. It's still too early to jump to conclusions about the other aspects of the FIRST kickoff. Hopefully all else will be fine.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Like other people, I'm not to happy. I mean especially since I wanted to go to the live event one day in the future. I'm not going to go now if it's just going to be a film on a screen...I can do that here.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

It will be fine.

--
I enjoyed my trip to the Kickoff a few years ago. It was enjoyable in a lot of ways. In other ways, it was a difficult trip to make. I remember being very cold most of the time and wasn't crazy about the politicians that were campaigning that year. :) The highlight for me was meeting/seeing so many FRC people and getting a sense of the history of the community and area. That was very special.

That said, I love the way our remote Kickoffs have developed here in Texas. Austin somehow dropped the ball this year but - San Antonio will get us through it in the awesome way that they do everything.

I do hope everything works out with the visit to Dean Kamen's house and the workshops.

Jane

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

This also gives FIRST the opportunity to just post the kickoff video at 10:00am EST and teams can watch it whenever they like. They can still have kickoffs at the instant the video is reveled or watch it at a more teen friendly hour. That is especially an issue for west coast and Hawaii teams. Early am kickoffs, as great as they are, don't mesh well with the bioclocks of the target audience. I'd rather have an alert team for that Saturday brainstorming than one who had to make a 7:00am kickoff.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

This also means HQ can focus on giving us a better overall experience in place of a live event. The live event is cool, but significantly more expensive and a whole lot more work.

Potentially the kickoff presentation could be more in depth, and all the information released might lead to less questions and forum Q&A posts. Give it a shot and don't shoot it down before it gets its fair chance, HQ is responsive to the community's reaction.

This also means they can add a laugh track for all of the great jokes.

Re: Bills Blog 10-25
 

Will they still reveal the full field in NH?
We have not gone to NH since 2008, but that is a big advantage of going to NH.
The full field is sometimes quite different than looking at the low cost field parts.

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For those that have not been to kickoff in Manchester, it was quite a networking event. You had the workshops, the Founders reception at Deans house, the party at Millies and the game reveal. You could visit with vendors and ask the GDC questions about the game. The GDC made themselves available on the field after the broadcast. You got to go into FIRST HQ and meet those fine folks when you picked up the KOP.

It would be a shame if those things no longer took place.

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Some sponsor invitations went out this week from FIRST HQ for the Founder's Reception, so I assume that will go on as usual.

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It's all good. We're still after-partying.

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Just in case anyone hasn't seen Bill's follow up to kick off related questions that was posted on 10/26:

Looks like everything will go on as usual, aside from the live unveil.

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Actually, you have to spend a decent amount of money to record as well. However, I think that prerecorded allows them to have a more polished Kickoff.I also think that it will increase the number of people we can bring in and have talk about FIRST. It is a lot easier to say to people like Bill Gates and what not that they should take 15 minutes out of their day to record a quick blurb (1 minute) about FIRST than it is to ask him to fly out to NH (brrr!) and burn a whole day for a couple minutes of talking.

I think this is for the best, I think it will help make a better, more professional, event. And, for those of you who know me, optimism is not normal for me.