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LinuxArchitect 02-04-2012 10:20

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1152382)
There was an incident where, during a double balance, one of the robots fell off and was touching the barrier. Instead of counting the bots as none balanced, the team got 10 points for the one robot fully supported.

That was our robot (team 53) that was touching the barrier. When the score went up, I knew it was wrong. But it is up to the students on the field (by rule, as I was told by an official) to know the rules and to point it out. As it didn't change the outcome, except for 2nd tie-breaker, I didn't try (from the top row of the stands) to get our kids to correct it; they were already on their way to the pits.

On a different issue, I was stunned by the ball hoarding that I saw on my end of the field. I saw the official at the closest side call a foul at the start of a match, but then never check again. Human players were holding two balls and had 5 or more on many occasions. And in this case, there is no way the students on the other alliance would have any idea to protest; they can't see what is going on. Ball starvation could have been the difference in several matches, though I didn't try to track it.

George

Alexa Stott 02-04-2012 13:15

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LinuxArchitect (Post 1152827)
On a different issue, I was stunned by the ball hoarding that I saw on my end of the field. I saw the official at the closest side call a foul at the start of a match, but then never check again. Human players were holding two balls and had 5 or more on many occasions. And in this case, there is no way the students on the other alliance would have any idea to protest; they can't see what is going on. Ball starvation could have been the difference in several matches, though I didn't try to track it.

George

<G31>
Quote:

Only Inbounders may contact Basketballs; each Inbounder may hold a maximum of two Basketballs. During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once removed from the Corral.
Violation: Foul
So long as the Inbounders were holding at most 2 balls each and left none in the corral, they were not in violation of the rules.

I did see a few instances where alliances let the balls sit in the corral for a while (as mentioned earlier) and should have been called for a foul. I only saw one Inbounder holding more than 2 balls on the red alliance and that was called. It was called a few times. I understand that it is difficult for the referees to actually see what was going on behind the player's station. There are only 4 refs (plus the head ref) so each one of them typically monitors their part of the field. I did see some of the refs running back to check if the Inbounders were complying with G31, but, yes, there were times when calls were not made.

As for being the difference in the match, teams were really only starving their own alliance of balls so they were just hurting themselves. I know many Inbounders would hold onto the balls until robots were out of the way so they could make it to the other side over the bump or they would hold onto them if it was getting close to the 30-second mark where they could start throwing them over the wall.

SteveGPage 02-04-2012 14:37

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
I want to say a very big “Thank you!” to Denise Lewis, Judges, Referees, Pit Admin “Divas!” and all Event Volunteers for a wonderful event!

A very special “Thank you!” to the FTAs – especially to Jacob and all his assistance!

To Jeff and Justin – you make these events a lot of fun! To me, you are the “voice of FIRST!”

Congratulations to FIRST Team 461 on earning the Chairman’s Award! You are an inspiration and a wonderful model for all of us!

Congratulations to FIRST Team 1885 on the EI Award! I hope we can partner together to expand the role of STEM education in the Capitol area.

A special shout-out to FIRST Teams 116, 174, and 1418! The Semis were one of the best set of matches I’ve ever had the pleasure to be a part of! You were all very high on my scouting data, so I knew it was going to be a tough set of matches, but never as thrilling as it turned out to be! I hope that one day we get to be on the same side of the glass!

Thank you to FIRST Team 1218 and 141! You were great partners! It was a lot of fun to work with you all! We fell short this time, but I eagerly look forward to working with you all again in the future! I hope to see you all in St. Louis!

Congratulations to FIRST Teams 467, 357, and 2914 for the Regional Win! I am thrilled that a local DC team is now able to hang a DC Regional Winner blue banner! I look forward to seeing you all in St. Louis!

I hope to see you all again next year in DC!

Tetraman 02-04-2012 17:22

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveGPage (Post 1152972)
A special shout-out to FIRST Teams 116, 174, and 1418! The Semis were one of the best set of matches I’ve ever had the pleasure to be a part of! You were all very high on my scouting data, so I knew it was going to be a tough set of matches, but never as thrilling as it turned out to be! I hope that one day we get to be on the same side of the glass!

Agreed. Your robot was quite a wonder, and even though we lost the second two, you can bet we all really tout that first match as the most epic battle ever played and are proud of giving your alliance a scare. ;) Good luck for the rest of your year, and we hope to play with you sometime.

Grim Tuesday 02-04-2012 23:22

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LinuxArchitect (Post 1152827)
That was our robot (team 53) that was touching the barrier. When the score went up, I knew it was wrong. But it is up to the students on the field (by rule, as I was told by an official) to know the rules and to point it out. As it didn't change the outcome, except for 2nd tie-breaker, I didn't try (from the top row of the stands) to get our kids to correct it; they were already on their way to the pits.

That particular one wasn't too big of a deal, since it didn't change the outcome of anything. If it had been, I would have gone down to the field and asked the refs myself.

bearbot 06-04-2012 13:35

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
After some discussion during the quaterfinal FIRSt team 2849 ursamajor broke down and we called a timeout to try and fix the issue but in the end its couldnt be fixed before the start of the match.So it was a handicapped match and our alliance was down to 2 versus 3 bots why wouldnt the let us bring in a backup bot.

Wetzel 06-04-2012 13:43

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bearbot (Post 1154949)
After some discussion during the quaterfinal FIRSt team 2849 ursamajor broke down and we called a timeout to try and fix the issue but in the end its couldnt be fixed before the start of the match.So it was a handicapped match and our alliance was down to 2 versus 3 bots why wouldnt the let us bring in a backup bot.

You have two minutes from when the head ref signals the all clear at the end of a match to call your 6 minute time out or to call for the backup robot. You have four minutes from when you call your timeout (2 minutes left in the timeout) to call for the backup robot. If you wait until the end of the timeout, you are not allowed to call the backup robot into play until the following match.

T28 and T29 are the relevant rules.
Quote:

[T28]

In the Elimination Matches, each Alliance will be allotted one Timeout of up to 6 minutes. If an Alliance wishes to call for a Timeout, they must submit their Timeout coupon to the Head Referee within two minutes of the Head Referee issuing the arena reset signal preceding their Match. When this occurs, the Time-out Clock will count down the six minutes starting with the expiration of the Arena reset period. Both Alliances will enjoy the complete 6-minute window. In the interest of tournament schedule, if an Alliance completes their repairs before the Time-out Clock expires, the Alliance Captain is encouraged to inform the Head Referee that they are ready to play and remit any time remaining in the Timeout. If Alliances are ready before the 6-minute window, the next Match will start. There are no cascading Timeouts. An Alliance may not offer their unused Timeout to their opponent.
[T29]

If during a Timeout an Alliance Captain determines that they need to call up a Backup Robot, they must submit their Backup Robot coupon to the Head Referee while there is still at least two minutes remaining on the Time-out Clock. After that point, they will not be allowed to utilize the Backup Robot. Alternatively, an Alliance Captain may choose to call up a Backup Robot without using their Timeout by informing the Head Referee directly within two minutes of the Head Referee issuing the Field Reset Signal preceding their Match.
http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/58#5.5.6
Wetzel

EricH 06-04-2012 13:45

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bearbot (Post 1154949)
After some discussion during the quaterfinal FIRSt team 2849 ursamajor broke down and we called a timeout to try and fix the issue but in the end its couldnt be fixed before the start of the match.So it was a handicapped match and our alliance was down to 2 versus 3 bots why wouldnt the let us bring in a backup bot.

Without any further information, I would guess that you waited too long.

[T29]
If during a Timeout an Alliance Captain determines that they need to call up a Backup Robot, they must submit their Backup Robot coupon to the Head Referee while there is still at least two minutes remaining on the Time-out Clock. After that point, they will not be allowed to utilize the Backup Robot. Alternatively, an Alliance Captain may choose to call up a Backup Robot without using their Timeout by informing the Head Referee directly within two minutes of the Head Referee issuing the Field Reset Signal preceding their Match. (emphasis mine)

This should have been covered in the Alliance Captain's meeting after selections, and it's been in the rules since Day 1. It's quite possible that someone forgot, though--competition stress tends to do that to you.

bearbot 06-04-2012 13:58

Re: 2012 Washington DC Regional
 
Thanks for the clarification i will pass onto the team most of the team were new members and those who been on the team was busy trying to fix the issue


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