Serious Controller Ideas
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/15/99 7:02 PM MST



Eric has hinted that a new controller for FIRST is in the works for 2000.

So...

Get your licks in now.

What do we want?

I will start us off with a few replies to this message.

Share your ideas too.

Joe J.

remote the relays...
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/15/99 7:22 PM MST


In Reply to: Serious Controller Ideas posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:02 PM MST:



I know that veterans will say this is a step backwards, but I beg to differ.

I envision a bunch of relay modules similiar to the Innovation FIRST Victors.

Power and motor leads would be exactly like the Victors.

I would suggest that a tri-color LED be used to indicate the state of the input signals (again, like what is done on the Victors).

Annother idea would be to have the fuses built right into the relay module (but let's make them circuit breakers instead, okay?)


The FWD/REV/OFF state would be controlled by either optically isolated digital IO or perhaps even using a PWM channel.

The Digital IO method would be simpler to implement (both inside the Relay Module and also on the RX board), but I sort of like the idea that all the motors would be controlled the same way (00 = REV, 254 = FWD, 127 = OFF)

Perhaps the clever folks at Innovation FIRST would make both types of inputs available.


My main reason for requesting the remote relay modules is that it would totally remove high current applications from the RX board.

In addition, high current relays could be used, allowing ALL motors to be run with relays rather than just the seat, window and Globe motors.

The reason I like this is that it would be a step in the right direction.

One of the trickier bits of the FIRST board to duplicate is that high current area. Getting the high current stuff in a package off the main board will get us that much closer to an 'off the shelf' controller.

Comments.

Joe J.

Re: remote the relays...
 

Posted by Thomas A. Frank, Engineer on team #121, The Islanders/Rhode Warrior, from Middletown (RI) High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.

Posted on 5/19/99 10:24 AM MST


In Reply to: remote the relays... posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:22 PM MST:



Hello All;

I agree wholeheartedly! We need two boxes, a power distribution assembly which
contains all the circuit breakers, relays, and current shunts to monitor outputs, battery monitor,
and a separate control box with the microcontroller, the analog and digital inputs, PWM outputs,
interrupts, and a PCMCIA spread spectrum RF ethernet card.

Using the ethernet would allow bidriectional communications, which would be great for
troubleshooting, and real time display of status. Imagine having a display at the player
station that showed the state of say a switch which would let you know when you were against
a pole or in some other state as desired...

FIRST could also run a packet sniffer/capture program which would store the whole match,
and allow them to show, after the fact, whether there were any problems with their equipment. That
would ensure maximum fairness in the rematch area.

The RF SS EN setup would also do away with the need for the tether adapters, turning in RNet's, and
all the related inconvienience of the present system.

Tom Frank

Re: remote the relays...
 

Posted by Thomas A. Frank, Engineer on team #121, The Islanders/Rhode Warrior, from Middletown (RI) High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.

Posted on 5/19/99 10:25 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: remote the relays... posted by Thomas A. Frank on 5/19/99 10:24 AM MST:



Oh, and did I mention that PCMCIA RF ethernet cards are about 1/2 the cost of RNet's...

Tom Frank

Hmmm... A 'black box' for the robot!
 

Posted by Raul, Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 5/19/99 12:04 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: remote the relays... posted by Thomas A. Frank on 5/19/99 10:24 AM MST:



: Hello All;

: I agree wholeheartedly! We need two boxes, a power distribution assembly which
: contains all the circuit breakers, relays, and current shunts to monitor outputs, battery monitor,
: and a separate control box with the microcontroller, the analog and digital inputs, PWM outputs,
: interrupts, and a PCMCIA spread spectrum RF ethernet card.

: Using the ethernet would allow bidriectional communications, which would be great for
: troubleshooting, and real time display of status. Imagine having a display at the player
: station that showed the state of say a switch which would let you know when you were against
: a pole or in some other state as desired...

: FIRST could also run a packet sniffer/capture program which would store the whole match,
: and allow them to show, after the fact, whether there were any problems with their equipment. That
: would ensure maximum fairness in the rematch area.

: The RF SS EN setup would also do away with the need for the tether adapters, turning in RNet's, and
: all the related inconvienience of the present system.

: Tom Frank

I also agree. These are great ideas!

Raul

Forget the PDA
 

Posted by Thomas A. Frank, Engineer on team #121, The Islanders/Rhode Warrior, from Middletown (RI) High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.

Posted on 5/20/99 10:08 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: remote the relays... posted by Thomas A. Frank on 5/19/99 10:24 AM MST:



Hello All;

Forget the PDA concept - Joe's idea of a relay module that connects just like
a VICTOR speed controller is MUCH better.

FIRST could put four of the SSC's in the control box and thus give us 32 outputs,
useable as either variable speed OR relay, in any combination, while getting all the
high power stuff away from the controll stuff (bet that would make Eric's life easier).

The PWM relay module would also be highly marketable, which would be good for InnovationFIRST.

Brainstorming can result in marvelous things.

Tom Frank

PDA?
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/20/99 5:10 PM MST


In Reply to: Forget the PDA posted by Thomas A. Frank on 5/20/99 10:08 AM MST:



I will be very glad to forget the PDA concept as soon as you remind me what it is that I am forgetting ;-)

Serious, while I can hardly argue with anyone agreeing with me, I would still like to understand what is being said.

I have racked my brain for SECONDS now and I can come up with nothing that PDA could stand for.

Plesas help me out.

Joe J.

Re: PDA?
 

Posted by Dan, Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret's and Banner Engineering.

Posted on 5/20/99 6:46 PM MST


In Reply to: PDA? posted by Joe Johnson on 5/20/99 5:10 PM MST:



PDA=Personal Digital Assistant (aka Palm Pilot) and if you're in high school, PDA=Public Display of Affection. :-Dan

: I will be very glad to forget the PDA concept as soon as you remind me what it is that I am forgetting ;-)

: Serious, while I can hardly argue with anyone agreeing with me, I would still like to understand what is being said.

: I have racked my brain for SECONDS now and I can come up with nothing that PDA could stand for.

: Plesas help me out.

: Joe J.

Re: PDA?
 

Posted by Jerry Eckert, Engineer on team #140 from Tyngsboro, MA High School and New England Prototype/Brooks Automation.

Posted on 5/21/99 10:57 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: PDA? posted by Dan on 5/20/99 6:46 PM MST:



: PDA=Personal Digital Assistant (aka Palm Pilot) and if you're in high school, PDA=Public Display of Affection. :-Dan

Or, if you're an engineer, Power Distribution Assembly. :)

- Jerry

Re: PDA?
 

Posted by Thomas A. Frank, Engineer on team #121, The Islanders/Rhode Warrior, from Middletown (RI) High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.

Posted on 5/22/99 10:32 AM MST


In Reply to: PDA? posted by Joe Johnson on 5/20/99 5:10 PM MST:



Joe;

You're not reading all the postings...go up a few levels.

Jerry got it right down below.

Tom

I swear I read that message 10 times...
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/22/99 11:28 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: PDA? posted by Thomas A. Frank on 5/22/99 10:32 AM MST:



Tom,

I read your message 10 times or more looking for any mention of PDA's.

The first line just did not register:

'...We need two boxes, a power distribution assembly which...'

I knew what you were talking about so I guess I didn't bother to read the words carefully.

My bad...

Joe J.

Realtime Multi-Tasking C
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/15/99 7:34 PM MST


In Reply to: Serious Controller Ideas posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:02 PM MST:



Give us a microprocessor/language combination that has Realtime Multi-Tasking capability.

A real time clock goes without saying.

This would enable a lot of complex stuff to be written in relatively simple modules.

For instance, a 'get latest radio data' task, a 'wheel speed control' task, an 'arm control' task, a 'compute wheel speed' task, a 'monitor power consumption' task, etc.

I suppose the language should be 'C' but I am not fussy.


Failing this, I suppose I will settle for just a powerful microprocessor with access to the interrupt service rountines (with both internal and external interrupt triggers).

Comments?

Joe J.

Now you're talking! (EOM)
 

Posted by Chris, Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

Posted on 5/20/99 6:10 AM MST


In Reply to: Realtime Multi-Tasking C posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:34 PM MST:



: Give us a microprocessor/language combination that has Realtime Multi-Tasking capability.

: A real time clock goes without saying.

: This would enable a lot of complex stuff to be written in relatively simple modules.

: For instance, a 'get latest radio data' task, a 'wheel speed control' task, an 'arm control' task, a 'compute wheel speed' task, a 'monitor power consumption' task, etc.

: I suppose the language should be 'C' but I am not fussy.

:
: Failing this, I suppose I will settle for just a powerful microprocessor with access to the interrupt service rountines (with both internal and external interrupt triggers).

: Comments?

: Joe J.

A controller of your very own...
 

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/15/99 7:37 PM MST


In Reply to: Serious Controller Ideas posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:02 PM MST:



Whatever the solution that FIRST comes up with, the entire system should be available for purchase.

I suggest that with radios and everything, FIRST should make the whole thing available for UNDER $3,000. Less is better of course.

Joe J.

99 Controllers?
 

Posted by Dodd Stacy, Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.

Posted on 5/17/99 7:25 AM MST


In Reply to: Serious Controller Ideas posted by Joe Johnson on 5/15/99 7:02 PM MST:



: Eric has hinted that a new controller for FIRST is in the works for 2000.

Any chance FIRST might sell us the 99 controllers, if they're to be obsoleted? Lack of a controller is the straw that generally consigns the old bot to the bone yard, rather than letting him go to pasture as a sponsor demo unit and sparring partner for the new bot.

Dodd