How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Any thoughts how they will try to top what they did for kick off last year? I am sure that Dean and friends have some tricks up their sleeves. My guess and this is just a guess is that it may be Barack Obama. That would explain the pre recording kickoff...

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

There is a presidential primary going on in New Hampshire the same weekend as the kickoff. There isn't a hotel in a couple of hundred miles available and the rates are ridiculous. You couldn't do a live kickoff there because no one could show up.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I'd be willing to bet there would be no live kickoff regardless of what events are occurring in the area.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

They will have a robot Will.i.am. And they will announce many desirable rule changes.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I'll just be happy if they give us a great game.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Why?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

As soon as it starts, Dean and Woodie walk on stage, and say just one thing:

"Minibot scores will be lowered"!

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

The pre-recording announcement was issued before the primary date was set.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Because learning the new FIRST game is more important than picking a new presidential candidate, duh! :D

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I'm interested in why Cory is willing to make that bet.

Edit: It's easy to figure out the impact of the primary and what the safe action would be regarding that - before the date is established but having a pretty good idea...

Jane

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Amen. I've been counting down the days until FIRSTmas....January 7th

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

You celebrate that holiday too?! Every year my team has their annual FIRSTmas party! It involves endless speeches from Dean, waking up at 4 in the morning, watching the new game video, and spending more time in the robotics room than we do at our houses!

For those who don't celebrate FIRSTmas, it's closely related to your holiday of "kick-off", but a lot more fun, and you loose a lot more sleep. :p

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

As for how they will top it. They will give us a game with logical bumper rules (none?), clear rules that don't need to be radically changed on update 1, suppliers that can actually supply parts in a timely fashion... and finally, by putting 5 fields on the floor of the dome again.


Live events cost money (yes prerecording costs money too) and limit what you are capable of doing. As I mentioned in the thread discussing the announcement this will allow FIRST to do some more interesting things such as having guests speak who would otherwise be unavailable for 2+ days to fly to frigid NH.

This just opens up new options for them.

This isn't based on conjecture, it comes from a conversation I had with John Dudas a couple weeks back at a STEM conference.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

^That, over and over again that

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

^This. Plus it just doesn't feel like a decision that was made based on circumstance specific to this year.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

It's also possible they want to show something that is difficult to do live, like driving a robot with the kinect on the demo field.

The problem is that they have prerecorded segments every year. Why not just be partially live, and partially prerecorded like usual?:confused:

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

$$$?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I think the best way to top Will.i.am is with Will.i.am.
Rather than have the man stand uncomfortably on the side with his silver satchel, bringing him in to the center to have him mutter "it's dope" - engage him. Let him use his talents, his skills, his roladex to bring in other stars of the screen and stage to promote the event. If he could get the likes of Justin Timberlake, Jack Black, Steven Tyler, and Bono to do promotional snippets for his ABC special, imagine what he can do for a planned, known, annual event!

-also-

He's been promoting a song that he will release when Curiosity lands on Mars. Can we look for T.H.F. (The Hardest Fun) to come out on January 7th?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Is it possible that some of the main players will not be available for some reason? I am sure that they would want to be there and plan accordingly, but sometimes they can't be avoided. Maybe they have a huge snow storm planned for that weekend.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Which brings about another point - who are the main players now?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

http://usfirst.org/aboutus/Leadership

Dave and Woodie are listed on the Advisory Board, which Woodie chairs. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave some form of speech, though I wouldn't expect them to do the game unveiling after last year's events.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I hope the game animation is good. It'll be a little sad if the Plowbot gag doesn't continue to demonstrate that robots need to be built for impacts like Dave always used to do. It'll be really sad if the animation is non-existent or flashy/over-the-top to the point where it doesn't do a great explaining the game.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Really, a Roladex? How quaint.

I doubt they'll change anything for the animation. They've been using the same six or seven robots for ages and it works fine.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Except Dave did the animation, and he's not a member of the GDC anymore. Whether or not he will do it again remains to be seen!

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

You mean "Dave" by "They". I'm 90% sure that the animation will change in some way.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

It doesn't mean they won't just reuse the models. Unless there's something particularly new about the robots this year, it would be unnecessary to update the models.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

... Who do you think owns the models? FIRST may only own the video rights and not the rights to utilize the models. </conjecture>

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

The song actually is T.H.E. The Hardest Ever but nice try :)

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Andrew, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel about 2011...? :P

I'd be happy to see a game with readily available game-pieces (Or a game where extra pieces aren't absolutely needed - see 2008) and to see someone throw a minibot in the trash and say 'Never again'.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

In an application like this that requires cooperation between utilizing the FTC hardware and FRC I'd be ok. In a drag race where the optimal solution is to not use any FTC parts other than what is required I think minibots were pointless. They wanted us to work with FTC teams, which I am all for*, but they made a challenge that didn't play to the strengths of the FTC teams and didn't require anything other than their motors (which even FTC students bad mouth).


*I put my money where my mouth is and am mentoring an FTC team right now so I have a basis for comparison between systems. So far I have some things I'm impressed with and some things I'm less than impressed with.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I hope Dr. Joe's prediction doesn't come true.

We struggle to make our FRC robot 'Smart'....

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I think for teams who did the work and made effective minibots even without FTC parts, they weren't completely pointless. They certainly were not what FIRST intended them to be, nor did they accomplish what FIRST wanted them to, but it was still an engaging design challenge so I can't call it pointless.

I think the potential is there for the minis to come back as smart minis that will be better suited for the FTC/FRC mesh that FIRST is going for. Do I totally agree with that? Not really, but I still think the theory behind that type of integration is somewhat sound.

Continuous improvement man! Keep on pushing the envelope.

-Brando

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

It's still an annoying distraction. They're basically asking us to make two robots to be successful every year, when many teams still are barely making one robot, for whatever reason. It disadvantages many fledgling teams. Also, it detracts from the competition experience - small robots are hard to watch from the stands, and once there is a standout design (even if it has to be smart, it has to work really well), most teams have time between competitions to duplicate it, leading to the identical minibot issue.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Yeah, new models for the water robots!
It wont be a live kickoff because the teams would smell the pool water...

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

That's the main reason I do not want to see minibots again (there are others). I've seen robot designs simulated or even copied at times, but that's not the only factor that controls whether or not a robot succeeds. Robots also have drivers. "Smart" minibots, however, don't have drivers, and if a good "smart" minibot is created, many teams will end up doing the exact same thing, creating "smart" minibots that all work exactly the same, with no change in the way the minibot runs.

Also, like mentioned, minibots were tiny, and hard to see unless one was up close. Plus, there wasn't a real difference. They were deployed usually 1 of about 4 ways, and they all did the same thing the same way (go up the pole).

In previous year's endgames, things could always change.You could shoot a special game piece into an opponent's trailer (different ways each time), you could hang from different parts of the towers different ways. You could even block someone hanging without any ridiculous red cards.

So all in all, PLEASE have no minibots, and be a bit lighter on the penalties, especially the ones in defending!

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

This thread has gotten off-topic...I don't believe bringing back minibots is going to 'top Will.I.Am' (well, that's debatable =P).

Anyway, if you wish to continue on the topic of minibots, a separate thread should be created.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

No, we are discussing that giving us a good game would top Will.I.Am now we are discussing how to get that. I fail to see how this is "off topic".

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Sorry, I had thought that pandamonium (creator of this thread) was aiming at getting answers of celebrities or political figures (actual people) who could one-up Will.I.Am, not what you guys were getting at. My mistake, my apologies ::ouch::

Anyway, as for the minibot argument, I would love to see them back again. Maybe have a water game for the minibots? They would have to be deployed and then swim across a tank of water, or dive to the bottom and bring some item up? ::rtm::

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

That would top will.i.am for sure! Even though it's a minibot.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

haha Hallry you are totally right those were my intentions, so off topic lol but thats ok. I am just anxious for when they release a game hint and then in 24 hours there are 36 pages of off topics at least this is manageable.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

As so be on topic with the origional post....

I don't think any celebrity or political figures can top Wil. I. Am. I say this because Wil. I. Am. was excessive in the first place! It was already frosting on the cake that is FIRST that he was there. I think what really makes Kicloff special is knowing what is ahead, and realising what an exciting, productive, and mind expanding year you have waiting ahead of you.

And the caffine and lack of sleep certainly feeds that feeling the morning you wake up and realise you get to see :everyone at Kickoff again ::safety::

As for minibots.... Can't say I would miss them all that much....

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

So if they follow the pattern of last year going with the performer of that other halftime show I guess it will be Madonna this year! :eek:

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Or maybe a good previous half-time performance, like the Who?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

you don't want to see Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

That would be epic!

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

This is one of those threads that needs an "I am here" button because it is all over the map.

Discussing the entertainment side of things - Will.i.am has continued to show interest and a great deal of curiosity in the science and technology side of things. I'm not familiar with Chuck Norris's interest or Madonna's, or, for that matter, many of the folks that Will.I.Am brought on board with him last year. Maybe at this point, it doesn't matter. Maybe a big name star is enough - I really have no idea. It would be great to see a panel of big name writers, directors, special effects folks who love the continual development of technology and robotics and how that helps them fulfill their visions/dreams/goals. Star Wars, Star Trek, Indiana Jones, Godzilla, Avatar - that would be cool. It would also be cool to have a panel of the animators from Pixar visit and talk about old times and current times. It would also be interesting to have a panel of doctors who work closely with robotics in surgical procedures.

There are lots of wonderful people that could entertain/inform us in ways that we can only dream of and imagine.

Jane

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

How about Tom Jones?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

The Pentatonics.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

AC/DC, Van Halen, ZZ Top all work for me. :)

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I've already seen too much of that.


While the promos for i.am.first were great, if there is celebrity interaction in the kickoff, I'd like to see it be specific to the event, not just "I'm a celebrity and I think general science is cool." Miley Cyrus relating a story about her freshman Biology class doesn't really directly transfer to FRC. But if she's revealing part of the 2012 game with a gamepiece in her hand, that would be legitimate and true.

To piggyback on what Jane said, I'd like to see a mixture of mainstream entertainment celebrities and science celebrities (although it could be argued that we've had that for years with Dr. Flowers, Mr. Kamen, and Mr. Lavery).

Possible crossover celebs would be Paul Sr. and Paul Jr., the Mythbusters (I know, Kari's done VEX and Grant's done FRC), Chris Hardwick, Conan O'Brien, Peyton Manning (since it's obviously a football game and he's not doing much these days anyway), Oprah Winfrey, Mike Rowe.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Does no one think that having Matt Smith or David Tennant reveal the game would make their life complete?

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Vwarp vwarp vwarp. "Hello, everyone! Please don't build Daleks or Cybermen this year. A sonic screwdriver is included in your kit of parts; however, it cannot be used as part of the control system. Let's build some robots! Allons-y!" Vwarp vwarp vwarp.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Mythbusters, anyone else wouldn't be appropriate. If you were going to do a bike builder like Taylor Suggested it'd have to be Jessie James, he's much more of a fabricator. Really like I said before, we just need Morgan Freeman to talk, that would beat everyone, including Chuck Norris.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Metallica is going to play a show every single night of St. Louis.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I'm sorry, but in my humble opinion, Morgan Freeman, although I like him as an actor, would not top Will-I-Am or the Mythbusters or Chuck Norris.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Are you kidding?! "Hello Dean!" "Who are you?" "I'm God, and I want your FRC teams to build me a robot!" IMHO, FIRST Almighty would top i.am.first any day!:D

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Hopefully, they wouldn't show up with Lou Reed.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

we named our minibot last year after Morgan Freeman. He's being there would be epic. :ahh:

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I would think that a cameo by our President might top anything else.
Or perhaps the Secretary of Education (Arne Duncan)... He appears to really love FIRST (he was at our school last year driving our robot and loved it..)

I don't really understand why we need a sports or music or film star...

Mythbusters... ok ...

Dean and Woodie and Dave (and many other mentors..) are my rock stars...

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

The thing is - we don't.

But they help us make it loud.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

If they don't walk out onto the stage with a minibot in hand and throw it in the garbage, I'll be fairly disappointed.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Please, I don't need help with that. I can make it loud all on my own.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I'm constantly ignoring things in my engineering studies at college. Things like friction, atmosphere, more friction, losses here and there... and if I'm not ignoring, I'm assuming certain conditions (say, flow regime or ideal conditions)!

When the Mythbusters overlook things, they usually explain why they're overlooking it. Say, they're going for ideal conditions (where engineers love to operate). They are thorough, just not in the way you want.

BTW: Grant Imahara has been involved with FIRST for a while. It might be a bit late for your concern about putting a bad face on FIRST. (And I REALLY hope your suggestion that Steve Jobs show up was not serious, for fairly obvious reasons. Now, the Woz, on the other hand...)

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I get the minibot frustration, believe me. But, does everyone really feel that there is no way a miniature robot can be a creative and effective aspect to a game? I dont know if its the optimist in me or what, but I think that idea has potential, just last years execution was about as bad as could be.

-Brando

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I think it's interesting that almost all of these people (Bill Nye and Grant Imahara being exceptions), do not have STEM degrees and were never practicing engineers or scientists. (Not to diminish their skills in any way, Adam Savage's Maltese Falcon TED Talk is quite possibly my favorite one, Jamie Hyneman's work speaks for itself, and while OCC's choppers are not my thing they are certainly impressive.)

Which leads me to an interesting question: Are there any other STEM celebrities that actually have education and have subsequently worked in their fields? There are other engineers and scientists that are celebrities to me, but I know I'm a dork so they would probably go unnoticed by most.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Woz has been involved with FIRST for quite awhile.. I haven't seem him much lately but he pretty much used to be a 'fixture' as a judge at CMP and often at other competitions...

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Yep, that's why I brought him up. I know he judged Arizona in 2010 (I was inspecting).

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Amen to that.

I expect to be disappointed though. I don't think FIRST understands how uneven the playing field was made by minibots. You NEEDED to do the minibot, and in order to do the minibot well, you needed to burn through motors. I seriously hope that the "next" minibot challenge does not actually use FTC parts, because FRC teams will push performance to the limit and break those again and again.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Partial disagreeance.

To develop one of the speedster minibots on your own, most likely required you to burn through motors.

However, I saw plenty of minibots with heavily borrowed designs- especially towards the end of the season- that wouldn't take many motors to develop at all. Particularly when you were essentially using the experience of another's design to avoid some of the pitfalls.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Actually, WE don't. We are already excited and involved. I think the reason behind the famous faces are to attract those who are not as excited as we are and are unlikely to investigate their local team (or push to start a team if there isn't one nearby.)

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I can't believe nobody's said Randall Munroe.
Can you imagine the animation?

That, as the kids say these days, would be epic.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Jimmy Carter: President and engineer

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

Yes the Woz has been around FIRST for a while.

In our pit back in 2007:

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

ahhh! That would make my life... FRC + xkcd = enough awesomeness to make my head explode

I can see it now... Red spiders crawling around the playing field, office chair swordfighting, and infinite grids of one ohm resisters. Best. Idea. Ever.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

And that's a good thing? Not that teams that copied (us included) did anything wrong, but saying an expensive engineering challenge with crap parts is justified just because "you can copy the smart teams later!" is silly.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I wasnt saying that was a good thing at all. I was just stating that teams who copied minibots were most likely going through less of the tetrix motors.

I almost fully agree with everything you have said thus far. I think the difference in viewpoint we have is that I disconnect the idea of a minibot from FTC parts almost completely. I'm looking at it purely from a view of "something for a robot to do on the field" ie: shoot balls into goals, stack boxes, hang tubes on pegs, hang from a bar, race miniature "robots".

From that viewpoint, I think the minibots were a good challenge. The fact that we were required to use less than stellar components and the bad scoring algorithm are what ultimately made them disappointing to most of us.

Re: How will they top WILL I AM?
 

I agree; the concept of the challenge was fun, flawed in a couple ways, but fun nonetheless.

I actually want to see minibots again or a function similar to minibots/auxiliary machines. I loved the little robots from 2002 many teams used (got to play around with 11's "MiniMORT" robot).

Try to veer away from all the negatives once in a while and point out what was good about the engineering challenge. We all mostly agree on the parts we disliked but were mandated to use, and I think (hope) FIRST knows that by now.