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-   -   First Official 2012 Game Hint (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98583)

Andrew Lawrence 04-12-2011 22:17

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astechz_Nick (Post 1088773)
On the topic of the size of the game pieces:
(all speculation so far is that they are balls)
After competing in FIRST last year my robotics team competed in the Ontario Skills Competition. This game was similiar to Aim High except that the robots were 2'x2'x2' and the balls were probably the size of tennis balls. With this in mind i think that the game pieces need to proportional to the size of the robot and quite frankly i can't imagine having those game pieces on something the size of our FRC bot. Then again this is FIRST so who knows?

On the topic of game design:
From what I am thinking right now there will be one center goalpost (think american football's goalpost) with a box for balls to land in on either end. You would shoot through the goalpost and have the ball land in your alliances box for two points a ball or you could shoot into your alliances box without it going through the center goalpost for one point. This(the goalposts and boxes) would all be on a center platform with ramps at either end.

I agree with your thoughts on game piece size.

I love your idea of the goal post. Just the thought in my head: A mixture of Aim High, Breakaway, and Logomotion. There will be a few sets of goal posts on each side of the field, with varying scores (a la Logomotion). One of the goal posts on each side are for counter-scoring, which will be from 12 to 24 inches in diameter, much smaller than the other ones. When robots throw balls through their goal posts, the human players collect the balls and return them to the field (a la Breakaway), by throwing them into the field. BUT, if they throw the balls returned to them into the opponent's counter-scoring goal posts, they'll lower their opponent's score. Balls that miss are returned back to the field via a slope on each side of the field. For legal rule reasons to make the game fair, thrown balls from human players must go farther than a certain line on the field, somewhere between the alliance wall and the halfway section. For the end game, robots climb their opponent's slopes on the opposite end of the field, and launch as many balls as they can into either their own scoring goals, for a set amount of points, or their counter-scoring goals for a larger bonus. Autonomous will be human players controlling the robot via connect to collect the balls from the field (which are placed at random).

Just something I thought of. What do you think?

Andrew Lawrence 04-12-2011 22:23

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1088788)
I don't know, that sounds a little bit too similar to Aim High...I don't think the GDC would have a game that much alike to a previous one.

But, then again, they did have Rack n' Roll and Logomotion...

Jim Beck, from FIRST in California, talked to us at a workshop yesterday and said that even though he wasn't on the GDC, he knew the design process. He told us that a lot of the things in FRC games are taken from a variety of other games. Different elements and rules will be taken from other games.

His example to us: Lunacy. Lunacy used the game piece collecting and launching form Aim High and the trailer from the game with the trailer (I forgot.). He said Dean told him that he wanted a hard to maneuver playing field, just like Maize Craze, the first FRC competition.

His last words to us: If you look at all of the previous years' things, including any year, not just ones 6 or 7 years ago, and piece things together with the hints, you can easily guess the game.

He also told us to stay off Chief Delphi. Apparently the endless threads about game hints are bad for our health. :rolleyes:

Hallry 04-12-2011 22:29

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1088794)
Jim Beck, from FIRST in California, talked to us at a workshop yesterday and said that even though he wasn't on the GDC, he knew the design process. He told us that a lot of the things in FRC games are taken from a variety of other games. Different elements and rules will be taken from other games.

His last words to us: If you look at all of the previous years' things, including any year, not just ones 6 or 7 years ago, and piece things together with the hints, you can easily guess the game.

Ah, okay. Well then, continuing on this idea of a football-like Aim High, didn't Ramp N' Roll have a field goal-like objects in it, on ramps?


Andrew Lawrence 04-12-2011 22:34

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1088798)
Ah, okay. Well then, continuing on this idea of a football-like Aim High, didn't Ramp N' Roll have a field goal-like objects in it, on ramps?


Well, judging by your picture, and the assumption that that was Ramp 'N' Roll, then yes, I guess it did. So maybe, like Rack 'N' Roll and Logomotion, we'll have something like Ramp 'N' Roll and Aim High together! Or MORE! :D

DavisC 04-12-2011 23:20

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Now, just thinking about (maybe some influence from me not wanting a 2011 repeat), I do not believe it will involve directly picking something up (more like throwing it or shooting it) and I understand the small ball issue and that's why I was kind-of thinking more along the lines of a soft ball that is maybe slightly smaller than a soccer ball while bigger than a tennis ball.
So its BIG, but small. And who says you can't play football with a round ball?

now that for the most part we have plenty of ideas on the game plan, I want to think about the obstacles/end-game and develop that aspect some... Off to work

PAR_WIG1350 04-12-2011 23:34

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1088798)
Ah, okay. Well then, continuing on this idea of a football-like Aim High, didn't Ramp N' Roll have a field goal-like objects in it, on ramps?

Yes, from what I hear, Dean Kamen wasn't a fan. A cool fact about Ramp N' Roll, it was the first game to be scored as it was played rather than determining the score based on the final position of all objects.

On a side note, I used Chrome's developers tools to see if maybe the hint was hidden on the page, like in the comments of the source code. Nothing there.

Jessi Kaestle 05-12-2011 00:13

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Okay everyone says to look at old games but no one is looking much past '06... What if the sensors are used to see if a see-saw like from '01's Diabolical Dynamics has broken the plane of parallel. You would need high frequency sensors for something like that as it is likely to teeter often...

DavisC 05-12-2011 00:26

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350 (Post 1088813)
On a side note, I used Chrome's developers tools to see if maybe the hint was hidden on the page, like in the comments of the source code. Nothing there.

Yea, I spent some time with that too (not that I truly knew what I was doing...), But no such luck...ugh we need some more ideas. Like hacking into the computer that posted the blog and looking at all the files.... (this is what happens when left with a game hint for too longgg )

vic burg 05-12-2011 01:30

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zaphodp.jensen (Post 1088574)
Uhh, I don't believe so, because the amber stack lights are always there, they are just at the bottom of the stacks at the alliance stations, and I believe are for indicating E-stops. The stack lights aren't there in high enough quantities to indicate them being used on all of the fields...

Unless you guys are talking about the clear stack light, which there are 32 of, which would be one per field with 13 extra... If there are that many extra, that's indicative of that item being subject to heavy wear and tear. Maybe there is one of those lights near the center of the field?

None of the color lights are high enough quantity, then. Only a few per the others. But in that case, why are there 2500 lenses for the amber lights? That's what really throwing me off, since I don't think each team needs their own?

EricH 05-12-2011 02:00

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vic burg (Post 1088822)
None of the color lights are high enough quantity, then. Only a few per the others. But in that case, why are there 2500 lenses for the amber lights? That's what really throwing me off, since I don't think each team needs their own?

There are two (2) types of amber lights, in two (2) different quantities.

1) Panel Mount Selectable Steady/Flashing LED, 12V, qty. 2500. Every single robot has carried one since 2007. I don't expect that that will change this year, given that quantity. You'll pick it up 1/7/2011 with the KOP.

2) Control Tower Stack Light, Amber Steady, qty 14. Not enough for all 19 fields, but almost certainly enough to equip the two new fields, replace that part on any field needing it, and still have a few spares lying around.

The other Control Tower Stack Light quantities indicate that they're for the two new fields; there also are a few other items associated with them that seem to be in spare/new field quantities.

Nick Lawrence 05-12-2011 02:15

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1088825)
There are two (2) types of amber lights, in two (2) different quantities.

1) Panel Mount Selectable Steady/Flashing LED, 12V, qty. 2500. Every single robot has carried one since 2007. I don't expect that that will change this year, given that quantity. You'll pick it up 1/7/2011 with the KOP.

2) Control Tower Stack Light, Amber Steady, qty 14. Not enough for all 19 fields, but almost certainly enough to equip the two new fields, replace that part on any field needing it, and still have a few spares lying around.

The other Control Tower Stack Light quantities indicate that they're for the two new fields; there also are a few other items associated with them that seem to be in spare/new field quantities.

Actually, in 2008 the robots did not use the Amber "BFL" from 2007. They have used them since 2009 though.

-Nick

MichaelBick 05-12-2011 02:49

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
I like the idea about multiple goals(more than 3). It explains the reasoning for so many photo sensors, and is much more sensible than using them to see if a robot has broken a plane. Furthermore it seems like a game where older teams could excel, yet easy enough and understandable enough for newer teams and spectators.

TrevorJ 05-12-2011 09:33

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vic burg (Post 1088548)
Alrighty, thanks Pierce. Well then, with the parts that equal 21 fields, we are probably dedicating 1 field to Hawaii, 1 to Israel (normal, though).
The weeks with the number of regionals/districts are:
Week 1: 5 + 2 qualifiers
Week 2: 9 (1 being the Israel thing) + 4 qualifiers
Week 3: 9 + 2 qualifiers
Week 4: 12 + 3 qualifiers (hello busy! Also, two regionals in Seattle same weekend so 2 fields over there & Hawaii getting a field plenty of time ahead - 15 fields total, though)
Week 5: 11 + 3 qualifiers (More busy with Minnesota getting 2 fields as well and the same for Texas)
Week 6: 6
Week 7: 2

So for sure need at least 19 fields (since some will be stuck or not get there in time between weeks) and having enough spare parts for 3 fields would be the best idea ever especially for week 4 & 5 (that is if they aren't already planning to have 3 spare field for those 2 weeks). I could easily see problems then (end of March), not that I want them to happen but, with 29 regionals/qualifiers going on in the 2 week span.... it will be tense. But also then Hawaii having it's field early.

Actually, FiM uses their own their own fields. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5#post1045725). I'm not sure if MAR is doing this or not, but at the very most this is the number of FIRST supplied fields needed each week:
Week 1: 6
Week 2: 12
Week 3: 9
Week 4: 13
Week 5: 12
Week 6: 6
Week 7: 1

Robert Cawthon 05-12-2011 09:50

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1088779)
Also, where would this third alliance station be located? Or would one team of the new alliance be on one side of the field, and the other team on the opposite side?

Put one of each alliance on each end. That way, each alliance has one team on one end and one on the other. Would interfere with communication, but it would be even.

EDIT: I am thinking of the nerf balls like Aim High. And Frisbees would not be hard to pick up. In the Rack and Roll kit of parts, there was a vacuum system. It could be used here.

tidymaze 05-12-2011 09:58

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmitka (Post 1088082)
Maybe it's nothing related to the supplies, but the name of the company, Rockwell. Bill's other post was titled Over the River and Through the Woods...and now "rock"well...just my 2 cents. :yikes:

Combined with the weight of the new field, you may be on to something!

In any case, previous hints have been on the esoteric side, so my thought is that the list of parts is superfluous. And speaking with people who have been involved with putting together fields, almost everything on the list has been there before.


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