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-   -   First Official 2012 Game Hint (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98583)

JB987 05-12-2011 20:13

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait (Post 1088963)
FIRST has to achieve a balance between engaging future engineers and engaging audiences. Sports-themed games are usually easier to understand for the audience though they have a certain amount of predictability. A unique engineering challenge, like the Tetras in 2004, is interesting for FIRST, but confusing for everyone else.

And the action on the field must be visible (including the movements of game pieces) in order for spectators in large arena type venues to be able to follow the action...which therefore rules out any small objects like ping pong balls, tennis balls, etc. For over a decade all movable game pieces have been no smaller than the nerf balls in 06...for a reason.;)

nathannfm 05-12-2011 20:52

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JB987 (Post 1088973)
the action on the field must be visible (including the movements of game pieces) in order for spectators in large arena type venues to be able to follow the action...which therefore rules out any small objects like ping pong balls, tennis balls, etc. For over a decade all movable game pieces have been no smaller than the nerf balls in 06...for a reason.;)

I wouldn't count out tennis balls just because of their size, I think it would be quite easy to see them flying through the air and rolling around on the ground in any stadium we play in. They do play the actual game in stadiums much large than we have, and with only one ball. Also some people have said that they would be too small for FRC robots to manipulate but that would be part of the challenge, you don't want a game that's too easy do you? There may be some other reasons not to use them like the fact that they go bad and loose their bounce after a while. This might make using the same balls in week 1 as week 7 a problem.

Also just something I thought of: what if the field was not static, what if it shot out the tennis balls like a tennis ball machine and our robots had to do something with them before, say, they bounced once (from the rules of tennis). That could be something to use the counters and sensors for (counting the balls the come out of the field and counting what happens to them), as well as present a use for the Kinect. The driver would actually be able to swing to make the robot react.
Just some thoughts that might make someone else thing of something. :]

IndySam 05-12-2011 21:04

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Tennis balls are easy to see, anyone ever been to a tennis match?

It would also be a fun challenge to try.

I don't think it will come to pass because of the potential field reset difficulties.

zaphodp.jensen 05-12-2011 21:06

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Rockwell Automation is a highly praised company that deals with sensors and control automation. THE NAME IS PURELY A COINCIDENCE BECAUSE THEY SELL THE SENSORS THAT ARE BEING USED. That is all. Thank you.

And sorry if it appears that I am screaming, I just want to make my point EASILY VISIBLE! ;)

Andrew Lawrence 05-12-2011 21:07

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by artK (Post 1088946)
I would like to say that the goal of FIRST is to inspire innovators. To create a non-original game would be hypocritical of their mission, for originality is a keystone of innovation.
So why, I ask, would Dean Kamen and the other designers create a game based on sports, in an interview from The New Cool Kamen states that the amount of idolism of sports was a driving factor in the creation of FIRST. Additionally, why would he have games that were similar to previous games, which allow veteran teams to have small advantages for their knowledge of the elements. the goal is to create a game which requires a design challenge.

While your statements make sense, if you look at any FIRST game within the last, oh, 7 to 8 years for example, you'll see a lot of repeated ideas and rules. If you look even further, you'll see things that were used in the 90's that have been used in recent games. FIRST has found the formula for a successful game, and now they are just mixing previous inputs to get the same successful outputs.

I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't I can try to explain it better.

Also, Welcome to Chief Delphi! :D

BJC 05-12-2011 21:10

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
I just really hope that the game does not share similarities with previous ones. I think that I would especially dislike a game which involves shooting smaller-ish sized balls. The reason being -- everyone already knows how to build great robots that shoot balls. They were built in 2006 and 2009. It takes alot out of the design process when you already have models of what works. 2010 was great for this, no one had ever built a kicker or ball magnet before. On the opposite side of the spectrum in 2011 most robots were heavily inspired by what worked in 2007.

Oh, but I still think that playpen balls would make a great small game object. They are big enough to not constantly drive over and to see from far away (and come in red and blue.) Additionally, they are VERY durable despite there light weight, I would venture to say that most balls could last the entire season. Most of this was picked up from playing with a 118 ball at Worlds. Anyways, my vote goes to them for a small ball for a game piece. Otherwise, I would love to see pool noodles cut into 12" and 8" lengths (although I bet that would leave quite a mess on the field.)

Andrew Lawrence 05-12-2011 21:14

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BJC (Post 1089005)
I just really hope that the game does not share similarities with previous ones. I think that I would especially dislike a game which involves shooting smaller-ish sized balls. The reason being -- everyone already knows how to build great robots that shoot balls. They were built in 2006 and 2009. It takes alot out of the design process when you already have models of what works. 2010 was great for this, no one had ever built a kicker or ball magnet before. On the opposite side of the spectrum in 2011 most robots were heavily inspired by what worked in 2007.

I agree. I haven't been in FRC too long, but from my experience, Breakaway was my favorite game. Not only was it easy to understand for everyone, but it was original. I don't like Logomotion as much because it heavily resembled 2007, and I just knew that teams would use ideas from previous robots.

That's why I'm hoping for a sports theme that has NOT been used before, ie. Football, Baseball?, Hockey, etc.

Walter Deitzler 05-12-2011 21:28

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
I am personally hoping for a shooting type game, such as aim high or lunacy. Someone (I forget who) posted something about the game being an aim high/logomotion combo, where there would be 3 levels of scoring, scored by shooting balls through hoops or at targets. Same as in Logomotion, the top row would be worth 3, second row worth 2, and bottom row (maybe breakaway goal type things) worth 1. I have already spent countless hours of classtime designing robots on pieces of paper to accomodate a shooter, and am all pumped for that type of game. I know that I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I think it would be fun. Really though, I just cannot wait for kickoff.

brunettegmp 05-12-2011 21:41

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
I agree with a lot of people for wanting to keep the game original. It would be pretty cool if they tied the game into the 2012 theme of world ending...idk how...but it'd be fitting.

Andrew Lawrence 05-12-2011 21:45

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brunettegmp (Post 1089015)
I agree with a lot of people for wanting to keep the game original. It would be pretty cool if they tied the game into the 2012 theme of world ending...idk how...but it'd be fitting.

for the endgame, a horizontal pole lowers to 20 feet above the field, going from alliance station to alliance station. At the 5 second mark, the floors retract and all robots not hanging on the pole fall into oblivion! And to make it more realistic, they will dig 50 foot holes beneath each field for the bots to fall into!

brunettegmp 05-12-2011 21:47

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1089019)
for the endgame, a horizontal pole lowers to 20 feet above the field, going from alliance station to alliance station. At the 5 second mark, the floors retract and all robots not hanging on the pole fall into oblivion! And to make it more realistic, they will dig 50 foot holes beneath each field for the bots to fall into!

hahahaha that'd be pretty awesome...maybe it turns into battle bots?!?! :)

MechEng83 05-12-2011 21:48

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brunettegmp (Post 1089015)
I agree with a lot of people for wanting to keep the game original. It would be pretty cool if they tied the game into the 2012 theme of world ending...idk how...but it'd be fitting.

Lava game -- with a Mayan pyramid we have to climb in the middle for the endgame.

Ninja_Bait 05-12-2011 21:50

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1089019)
for the endgame, a horizontal pole lowers to 20 feet above the field, going from alliance station to alliance station. At the 5 second mark, the floors retract and all robots not hanging on the pole fall into oblivion! And to make it more realistic, they will dig 50 foot holes beneath each field for the bots to fall into!

And they will be filled with WATER and parts from Rockwell Automation that weren't really important at all!

Hint solved. Done.

Walter Deitzler 05-12-2011 21:52

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brunettegmp (Post 1089015)
I agree with a lot of people for wanting to keep the game original. It would be pretty cool if they tied the game into the 2012 theme of world ending...idk how...but it'd be fitting.

Maybe the endgame could be throwing minibots into some mayan sacrifice fire to prevent the world from ending. Then we ccould rid the world of the minibot problem once and for all!

Andrew Lawrence 05-12-2011 21:52

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MechEng83 (Post 1089022)
Lava game -- with a Mayan pyramid we have to climb in the middle for the endgame.

Only if lava spews out the top of the pyramid as the robots ascend! :D


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