![]() |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Has anyone else noticed the correlation between the numbers for very high speed counter, and the photoelectric switches? The difference is two. I think that this might be where a minibot would come in, if anywhere. Minibots could be faster than normal robots (STEVE!) and with the possibility of six minibots breaking a beam, perhaps several times in a row, the speed on the counter may be necessary. (2)
That, or there might be no minibot, and the robots may have to manipulate several small things into a hopper (ping pong balls? No, too easy to find for FRC, especially near the start of the spring semester for most colleges(tennis balls in the middle of winter are a completely different story, however.)), breaking the beam several times in rapid succession, especially if a team has a hopper that can hold several items at once. A photoelectric sensor would also be required in this case, as a limit switch might not have time to reset, or may not even be able to trigger if the items are too lightweight. (1) Or, a combination of the two: the robot might have to manipulate a swarm of minibots into a hopper, and they all fly over to a limit switch in the back of the hopper. Your score is reduced based on how many minibots you use. (3) Of course, the sensors might also be able to detect if the water is overflowing from the game field. (4) In conclusion, obviously it's a water game. Kidding. The numbers after each paragraph denotes my perceived likelihood of each event happening, the lower, the more likely. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I think that between the new pneumatic wheels from AndyMark and the "Rockwell" name, the field is going to be rather bumpy. That would also explain the heavy field situation. I have a feeling the GDC wants to mix up the drive trains from mecanum, swerve, and six wheel, and suspension would be an interesting challenge. Of course, nothing but speculation on my part.
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
I'm quite certain that Andy, Mark, and the folks at FIRST do not collude in such a manner. Leave that to Congress. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
In 2009, when everyone was forced to use the same wheel, AM built a custom wheel and was the sole supplier for it. That being said, there has been a market in FRC for Pneumatic wheels since the pre-alliance days. Coming out with a pre-hubbed easy to use Pneumatic Wheel is just good business. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
So if my robot somehow falls into lava, PLEASE give me all the penalties in the world! Just let my robot survive! |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
What I'd like to see is more of a terrain type of thing going on on the field. Breakaway was a good start, but every game I've experienced were pretty much flat. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I would like to say that the goal of FIRST is to inspire innovators. To create a non-original game would be hypocritical of their mission, for originality is a keystone of innovation.
So why, I ask, would Dean Kamen and the other designers create a game based on sports, in an interview from The New Cool Kamen states that the amount of idolism of sports was a driving factor in the creation of FIRST. Additionally, why would he have games that were similar to previous games, which allow veteran teams to have small advantages for their knowledge of the elements. the goal is to create a game which requires a design challenge. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Also just something I thought of: what if the field was not static, what if it shot out the tennis balls like a tennis ball machine and our robots had to do something with them before, say, they bounced once (from the rules of tennis). That could be something to use the counters and sensors for (counting the balls the come out of the field and counting what happens to them), as well as present a use for the Kinect. The driver would actually be able to swing to make the robot react. Just some thoughts that might make someone else thing of something. :] |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Tennis balls are easy to see, anyone ever been to a tennis match?
It would also be a fun challenge to try. I don't think it will come to pass because of the potential field reset difficulties. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Rockwell Automation is a highly praised company that deals with sensors and control automation. THE NAME IS PURELY A COINCIDENCE BECAUSE THEY SELL THE SENSORS THAT ARE BEING USED. That is all. Thank you.
And sorry if it appears that I am screaming, I just want to make my point EASILY VISIBLE! ;) |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't I can try to explain it better. Also, Welcome to Chief Delphi! :D |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I just really hope that the game does not share similarities with previous ones. I think that I would especially dislike a game which involves shooting smaller-ish sized balls. The reason being -- everyone already knows how to build great robots that shoot balls. They were built in 2006 and 2009. It takes alot out of the design process when you already have models of what works. 2010 was great for this, no one had ever built a kicker or ball magnet before. On the opposite side of the spectrum in 2011 most robots were heavily inspired by what worked in 2007.
Oh, but I still think that playpen balls would make a great small game object. They are big enough to not constantly drive over and to see from far away (and come in red and blue.) Additionally, they are VERY durable despite there light weight, I would venture to say that most balls could last the entire season. Most of this was picked up from playing with a 118 ball at Worlds. Anyways, my vote goes to them for a small ball for a game piece. Otherwise, I would love to see pool noodles cut into 12" and 8" lengths (although I bet that would leave quite a mess on the field.) |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
That's why I'm hoping for a sports theme that has NOT been used before, ie. Football, Baseball?, Hockey, etc. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I am personally hoping for a shooting type game, such as aim high or lunacy. Someone (I forget who) posted something about the game being an aim high/logomotion combo, where there would be 3 levels of scoring, scored by shooting balls through hoops or at targets. Same as in Logomotion, the top row would be worth 3, second row worth 2, and bottom row (maybe breakaway goal type things) worth 1. I have already spent countless hours of classtime designing robots on pieces of paper to accomodate a shooter, and am all pumped for that type of game. I know that I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I think it would be fun. Really though, I just cannot wait for kickoff.
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I agree with a lot of people for wanting to keep the game original. It would be pretty cool if they tied the game into the 2012 theme of world ending...idk how...but it'd be fitting.
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Hint solved. Done. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Quote:
hahahaha!!! agreed! |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
what if this game was more of a race game like 2004 but with alliances of three racing against each other to fill up a hopper with tennis balls/playpen balls/etc. on the other side of the field from where the game objects are received. first team to a certain amount before the time limit wins!
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Seriously, this is legitimately dangerous on an FRC field. I don't think we'll be seeing any tennis balls or golf balls, etc, moving through the air at relatively high speeds or long distances. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
This year is the 20th anniversary of the first video game (Pong) and the 10th anniversary of Super Mario Kart. What if our alliances completed laps (racing) while collecting playpen balls, and shooting/dumping them into goals? The high speed counters can be used for scoring, whether it be in goals or as a lap counter. Let the mayhem ensue! |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
I love the Mayan Pyramid idea. We're about due for stairs. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
If I'm imagining things correctly, the beams would only be useful at counting things that can only pass through a goal one at a time, if you have 2 go in at the same time then you'll run into problems.
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Im seeing an infared photoswitch, this has the capability to tell if something has interupted the beam in light of dark environments. Why would FIRST order so many photoswitches just to do the job of a ref and look for a robot passing a line? They wouldn't.
I could see a part of the field being obstucted from view. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
2010's goals were never designed for multiple game pieces to pass through, or at least I don't think they were. It doesn't help that the memory foam made it really easy to jam two balls into the goal pretty tightly. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
There was a match replayed that year... in finals... because the lower goal counted 5 balls too many in automode. 4 high (12 points) versus 10 low (10 points), and 10 low won autonomous (score 15 points). Yes. This was in a regional finals match. The way the game was set up, this screwed up the entire match. After this incident and others like it, a delay to allow for the manual counters to report in was added.
It wasn't the hardware, IIRC, but the software that didn't quite work properly. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Whoa...I think this is the most substantial game hint I've seen. Not a cryptic phrase or an obscure photograph, but a parts list for the field? In a plainly readable format?
This is too easy. It must be a decoy. The real game hint is obviously steganographically encoded in the image. Come on CD'ers, start cracking... |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Could the "Very high speed" of the counter not refer to how many times it can count in a second but its response time to a change of input? I am not sure exactly how it works, but the high speed may just mean that whatever triggers the sensor (probably photogate) is only blocking the photogate for a short time, meaning that it is small and/or moving fast.
Even launching a few balls into a goal a second is "fast" from the game prospective, but is nothing for a computer (and the parts list had LAN adapters that enabled direct IO, I believe somebody posted.) There must be some reason for FIRST to add extra circuitry between the computer and the sensor. If the network is not fast enough to register a goal with whatever sensor it is, the adding of a "quantizing" counter between them would eliminate this problem. People said that in Aim High the counters were unreliable, does anyone know why? was it a speed-of-signal-pulse issue? If used like this, this part seems like it would probably have been inserted as a tweak as the GDC played and tested (and figured that it wouldn't work well without it). I can see it happening. photogate input: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ._____/\__________ Time the network is looking for a response (when high): ----____----____- it would not be recorded because the pulse happens when the network is not listening with the "quantizer" photogate input: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ._____/\__________ signal to network: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ._____/----\______ Time the network is looking for a response (when high): ----____----____- this time the signal and the async time the network is "looking" line up, so there will be a score detected. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I had an idea:
what if the high speed sensors are used to monitor robots driving though lanes? like a 1-robot-per-lane version of overdrive? just a thought... |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong Gary. Quote:
Like above, never was able to view the 2006 goals even with the internet searches these days. I was just stating that in 2010 there was a certain bottle neck that the balls could eventually go through one by one counting each separately mainly referring to the fact that game pieces will most likely be scored one by one. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
I'm curious to how long RSLogix has been used by FIRST HQ. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Oliver |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
On a slightly unrelated note, there has been a lot of speculation re: the return of minibots. Why not apply the "miniaturization" principle to the grown-up bot? The 38 x 28 footprint has been somewhat sacred lately, and it's possible that the GDC had issues with so many chassis designs being "recirculated" from Rack 'n Roll last year. The new CRio is smaller, why not the robots? A smaller footprint would force many teams to rethink their entire packaging scheme.
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
If you throw Pujols a nasty curveball and he misses, chances are very good that the rookie who just came out of AAA will also tighten up and miss. - Sunny G. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Why do you think they have a Quantity collumn?
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
The back of the goal was netting, but the exit was at the bottom (a sloped ramp led to a hole, which dropped balls one at a time through a tube to a trash can or tote in the player station). Due to the size of the hole, the jams tended to happen down there. Poking the pile usually allowed one at a time to drop in with no further effort (unless you had one of the Triplets, 254/968, and Pink or Killer Bees all opening fire--then you needed to be very careful with the stick to avoid descoring balls). Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Incidentally, being frequently used in industry is not a sufficient reason to encourage teams to try something. Industry does lots of inefficient, uneconomical or otherwise illogical things because it has constraints that don't apply to teams or students learning engineering methods. Furthermore, assuming a finite amount of time to learn industrial techniques, it's not necessarily a good idea to split efforts between platforms. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
B.A.: Before Alliances |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
The cRio is smaller, but the overall footprint required for the electronics is larger than it was with the old IFI system - Jaguars are larger than Victors, the PDB is larger than the distribution board we used to use, the cRio (even the new one) is significantly larger (in 3 dimensions) than the old robot controller - plus you have to have a digital sidecar attached, which increases the footprint even more. With the KitBot chassis, I don't think the GDC is worried about recirculated chassis designs - We've used the exact same chassis (the KitBot) 4/5 years our team's been around! |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Sorry for joining in late...
Quote:
Warning: My next two comments add no value. Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
The Rockwell stuff is probably used for the field. Although ladder logic and such may not be cutting edge technology, it is very reliable and is used extensively in factory automation. The sensors do indicate that there will be some sort of flying object to be counted (I'm so happy). I wonder if they will finally use footballs. For years Dean has mentioned that FIRST is modeled after professional sports, and he sometimes references the NFL. A football throwing game would be both a challenge and a blast to play. Poof balls would be safe, but I do remember shredding several of them during Aim High. All of our practice balls ended up looking like asteroids.:D
Something to keep in mind though... the game design committee went through some pretty dramatic changes last year. This game could be like nothing we've seen. I just hope it can come close to the awesomeness we have seen in the past. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Endgame: Minibots must climb up a ladder without touching the side rails...
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Hmm... Extra thought, we've all been looking at this 1 way (how will each part be used?).
Anyone looking into What is NOT on the list? (what isn't on it that was in Aim High/Breakaway?) |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
For example, if we were playing a remade version of Triple Play, and had the field parts list, and didn't see the pressure plates, we could see that the pressure pads used for human loading wouldn't be in the new game, thereby eliminating that from the equation. Still not an accurate thing to do, but it does something, I guess. |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
A random note.. But I found some prelude to Aim High #2.
Gotta see this: the mythbusters, a cannon, cannonball, and some bad aim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sCeTyAXFUI see this too about it: http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/...ent+Goes+Wrong |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
of course...speculation... |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
I don't know what to think about it but combined with the introduction of the kinect, plus the new FRC game hint (which includes a bunch of lights) I think that I can expect something very unexpected!!!
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kinect |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
Though I suppose they could go the Breakaway route, and make the counting of balls occur when the humans are putting the balls back onto the field. Hmm... :D |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
The sensor on the ball return was only to ensure that you weren't holding onto the ball for longer than 15 seconds or so, right? Had the score counter been on the ball return, that would've meant that any ball scored in the last 15 seconds of the match had to be returned to the field, which didn't always happen...? |
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi