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-   -   First Official 2012 Game Hint (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98583)

Andrew Lawrence 08-12-2011 19:00

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LedLover96 (Post 1089553)
I see robot damage in our future...

Someone probably said the same when someone suggested trackballs in 2008! Imagine your robot getting hit with a football vs. a trackball.

Or worse, do what our robot did: Take a soccer ball straight to the hanging mechanism in 2010. :p

Bottom line is for the most part, if there's flying/moving objects, something CAN get damaged. Doesn't mean it will.

plnyyanks 08-12-2011 21:02

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1089639)
Bottom line is for the most part, if there's flying/moving objects, something CAN get damaged. Doesn't mean it will.

But Murphy's Law says that you'll be one match from winning your Regional, when your robot WILL get damaged. Design with durability in mind. Plan for the worst, hope for the best (but, like our coach always says: "hope is not a strategy").

Andrew Lawrence 08-12-2011 21:05

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plnyyanks (Post 1089683)
But Murphy's Law says that you'll be one match from winning your Regional, when your robot WILL get damaged. Design with durability in mind. Plan for the worst, hope for the best (but, like our coach always says: "hope is not a strategy").

Oh, how I LOVE Murphy's Law! :D Everything bad happening almost exactly when it is at the most inopportune (Vocab word, my English teacher will be so proud!) time.

Somewhere, in a grave far away, Murphy is laughing at us.

IndySam 08-12-2011 21:11

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plnyyanks (Post 1089683)
But Murphy's Law says that you'll be one match from winning your Regional, when your robot WILL get damaged. Design with durability in mind. Plan for the worst, hope for the best (but, like our coach always says: "hope is not a strategy").

I'm going to disagree with your coach. Hope is a strategy, just not a very good one :)

Sean Raia 08-12-2011 21:42

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
This game hint has been pretty uninspiring so far :-(

Is there a reason for the 2 extra high speed counters? Why not just 250?
That seems like the last thing that is left to dissect on this hint.

Andrew Lawrence 08-12-2011 21:47

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Dear GDC,
We've extensively scrutinized the game hint you gave us, and have so far extracted about 98% of the information available on it, current knowledge permitting. Therefore, we would appreciate it if you released the second game hint before we start getting bored, and the crowd starts dying down. It is for your best interest in which I say, "RELEASE ANOTHER GAME HINT!!!!".

Thanks!

Best regards,
Andrew Lawrence

P.S: Tell Dean I said Hi! :D

Sean Raia 08-12-2011 22:02

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
That extra two must have been ordered to send us a message of some sort, it does not add up no matter how you slice it...

2 extra counters, its got to mean something.

OR
It's late and i am grasping at straws to revive the discussion on this hint.

EDIT: Two more teams on the field? Not likely, but that's the direction my thoughts are going.

WizenedEE 08-12-2011 22:51

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
We may want to keep in mind that this might not be everything FIRST "ordered" since it's just the parts that Rockwell was gracious enough to donate. Maybe they needed 1000 of a part and Rockwell agreed to give them 250.

DavisC 08-12-2011 23:06

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Backups? Idk, a new game hint must be released tomorrow or else I will fall into depression over the weekend...

And actually, the blog never truly states that the List is THIS years parts. I guess it is possible this is actually a list from a year like Aim High (but I doubt this is the case)

plnyyanks 08-12-2011 23:12

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DavisC (Post 1089709)
Backups? Idk, a new game hint must be released tomorrow or else I will fall into depression over the weekend...

Once upon a time, we could call on Super Dave to save the day, but alas, we are all now at the mercy of the GDC.

pfreivald 08-12-2011 23:51

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Speaking of donations, if any of y'all haven't taken advantage of Gates's offer, it's great! They're allowing ~20-ish products, and some of those sprockets are awfully darn expensive!

It's allowing us to prototype an octocanum modification we've been wanting to do for a while.

So, yeah. Not about the game hint, but I saw the word 'donations' and thought, "DOOOOOOOooooooo it!"

EricH 08-12-2011 23:51

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Actually, back in my day, we waited for Lavery Claus to give us hints.

(Now it seems that jolly St. Bill has to fill in the gap :p...)

akoscielski3 09-12-2011 07:35

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
This may have already been said (as im am not going to read every single post, sorry). but i think that we are suppose to be looking more at the chart, rather than the parts in it. though with the high speed counting things it does seem to be something like an Aim High game (which would be awesome! i loved that game, maybe cause it was the first FRC game i saw live). for the chart idea it could mean something with stacking game pieces onto one another, but then where would the very fast counters be in play? maybe end game?

MattC9 09-12-2011 11:25

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by akoscielski3 (Post 1089731)
This may have already been said (as im am not going to read every single post, sorry). but i think that we are suppose to be looking more at the chart, rather than the parts in it. though with the high speed counting things it does seem to be something like an Aim High game (which would be awesome! i loved that game, maybe cause it was the first FRC game i saw live). for the chart idea it could mean something with stacking game pieces onto one another, but then where would the very fast counters be in play? maybe end game?

Can we find old documentation on the aim high fields?

plnyyanks 09-12-2011 11:46

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MattC9 (Post 1089770)
Can we find old documentation on the aim high fields?

Aim High Game Documents

Official Field Drawings

Miksoko 12-12-2011 17:15

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
What if there is a tunnel?
There are a lot of amber lights and a lot of photoswitches- which monitor light in a given spot. This would work most accurately in a full dark situtation which is not possible in a game setting. To get full dark, I propose that as a speculation, they have a tunnel, and blind operations.

UBY 14-12-2011 15:09

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
what will the very high speed counter be used for? I was wondering if there would be tennis balls, racketballs, golf balls?

zaphodp.jensen 14-12-2011 17:15

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Miksoko (Post 1090578)
What if there is a tunnel?
There are a lot of amber lights and a lot of photoswitches- which monitor light in a given spot. This would work most accurately in a full dark situtation which is not possible in a game setting. To get full dark, I propose that as a speculation, they have a tunnel, and blind operations.


The Amber lights are found on all of the competition fields, under the stack lights at the Alliance Stations. There are 6 Per Field. That is 12 for the two new fields.

Also, the photoswitches are used for detecting proximity, and or line following. They are not analog parts, so they are not useful for detecting light levels. How they work is they send out an IR beam, and when they get a reflection that is above a set threshold amount, they turn on.

And if we had a tunnel long enough for it to be dark, how would the field get reset, how would the spectators see, and the operators operate?

Jon Stratis 14-12-2011 17:16

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UBY (Post 1091138)
what will the very high speed counter be used for? I was wondering if there would be tennis balls, racketballs, golf balls?

Small balls are a possibility, but also consider the safety aspect of any game piece... a golf ball that gets shot out into the crowd (or at a ref!) could injure someone. If you've ever played tennis or racquetball, you know those can sting pretty good too, when hit hard!

Foam balls - like those used in many Nerf toys - can be launched pretty quickly, yet won't hurt much if a shot goes wrong. But those are probably too easily obtained and frequently stocked to be used as a FIRST game piece :p

zaphodp.jensen 14-12-2011 17:16

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
QBY, please read the posts before. This has been discussed heavily before your post.

notmattlythgoe 15-12-2011 11:58

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle33199 (Post 1091176)
Small balls are a possibility, but also consider the safety aspect of any game piece... a golf ball that gets shot out into the crowd (or at a ref!) could injure someone. If you've ever played tennis or racquetball, you know those can sting pretty good too, when hit hard!

Foam balls - like those used in many Nerf toys - can be launched pretty quickly, yet won't hurt much if a shot goes wrong. But those are probably too easily obtained and frequently stocked to be used as a FIRST game piece :p

What says they have to be shot though? What if they are going to be fed into a bucket of some sort instead of a goal on a wall.

Jon Stratis 15-12-2011 12:22

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Even if they are going into a bucket, don't you think that some team is going to have the bright idea that shooting them in from half a field away will allow them to score more points (as they won't have to drive right up to the bucket)?

I've been hit with the game pieces (intentionally or accidentally) for every game for the past 5 years. None of them have really posed an injury threat if something went wrong - the closest we got was with the track balls, and being as large as they were it was pretty difficult to get them enough speed to be really dangerous (which still didn't stop some team from trying in their effort to score quickly and efficiently!).

notmattlythgoe 15-12-2011 12:47

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle33199 (Post 1091412)
Even if they are going into a bucket, don't you think that some team is going to have the bright idea that shooting them in from half a field away will allow them to score more points (as they won't have to drive right up to the bucket)?

I've been hit with the game pieces (intentionally or accidentally) for every game for the past 5 years. None of them have really posed an injury threat if something went wrong - the closest we got was with the track balls, and being as large as they were it was pretty difficult to get them enough speed to be really dangerous (which still didn't stop some team from trying in their effort to score quickly and efficiently!).

Rules could be made to stop this, my point is I wouldn't count out any game piece.

Taylor 15-12-2011 13:10

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
FTC currently encourages students to lift bowling balls way up high. There are many ways in which safety can be instituted in an exciting way.
Recall the initial velocity rules from 2006.
Quote:

<S02> Muzzle Velocity - No ROBOT may throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (26.8 mph).
As a reference, a ball traveling at this velocity when leaving the ROBOT at an angle of 30º from horizontal with no spin will travel approximately 35 feet. A robot that violates this rule will be considered unsafe per <S01>.

zaphodp.jensen 16-12-2011 13:32

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
And Remember, they had numerous palates of plexiglass, which could be used to enclose the entire field, protecting spectators and drivers alike...

PAR_WIG1350 16-12-2011 21:12

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor (Post 1091425)
FTC currently encourages students to lift bowling balls way up high. There are many ways in which safety can be instituted in an exciting way.
Recall the initial velocity rules from 2006.

No it doesn't, it doesn't specifically discourage it either, but the goal into which the bowling ball is scored is only 8 inches above the playing field and there is a ramp leading up to it. Furthermore, the bowling ball only weighs six pounds, so it would hurt, but anything that could make it do more than that would likely be declared a safety hazard and would have to be disabled in order to pass inspection.


Quote:

Originally Posted by zaphodp.jensen (Post 1091633)
And Remember, they had numerous palates of plexiglass, which could be used to enclose the entire field, protecting spectators and drivers alike...

Just a word of caution, Plexiglass is acrylic, which shatters on impact; The palates had polycarbonate, which doesn't shatter under normal conditions and bends to absorb impacts rather than failing completely. I don't recommend using plexiglass on or near the robots for anything, but polycarbonate is a good material for FRC when it is properly used.

ratdude747 16-12-2011 22:56

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350 (Post 1091775)
Just a word of caution, Plexiglass is acrylic, which shatters on impact; The palates had polycarbonate, which doesn't shatter under normal conditions and bends to absorb impacts rather than failing completely. I don't recommend using plexiglass on or near the robots for anything, but polycarbonate is a good material for FRC when it is properly used.

thats a bit ironic... what i wonder is how they get away with using plexiglass for the guard panels at hockey rinks... pucks can fly at pretty quick speeds, esp in a pro game and it bounces of one of the goal posts (net supports)... must be a puck thing.

speaking of which, what about puck like hockey game? that my require high speed sensors...

IndySam 17-12-2011 10:14

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ratdude747 (Post 1091785)
thats a bit ironic... what i wonder is how they get away with using plexiglass for the guard panels at hockey rinks... pucks can fly at pretty quick speeds, esp in a pro game and it bounces of one of the goal posts (net supports)... must be a puck thing.

Because they do use polycarbonate but the sportscasters call it plexiglass because it's easier to say.

mdiradoorian 17-12-2011 20:13

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
plexiglass is easier to say than polycarbonate. Hockey would be a cool game to play but the only problem is that it would be tough for every team to have a rink to practice on.

Hallry 17-12-2011 20:15

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdiradoorian (Post 1091925)
Hockey would be a cool game to play but the only problem is that it would be tough for every team to have a rink to practice on.

Regolith anyone? :yikes:

EricH 17-12-2011 20:44

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1091926)
Regolith anyone? :yikes:

You want to go to the moon, eh?

ratdude747 17-12-2011 20:48

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1091949)
You want to go to the moon, eh?

hmm... FIRST has already been there, done that... what is the next step? Mars! :ahh:

Hallry 17-12-2011 21:14

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ratdude747 (Post 1091955)
hmm... FIRST has already been there, done that... what is the next step? Mars! :ahh:

Well, that's where Dave's newest car is headed =P

ratdude747 17-12-2011 21:20

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1091960)
Well, that's where Dave's newest car is headed =P

hmm...

KrazyCarl92 17-12-2011 21:41

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IndySam (Post 1091816)
Because they do use polycarbonate but the sportscasters call it plexiglass because it's easier to say.

They in fact use plexiglass. Having played hockey and seen the stuff shatter, it REALLY shatters everywhere. Video evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB9CMKHGjag

As for how they "get away with it", my guess would be a difference in yield strengths. It may take much more force to shatter the plexiglass rather than bend the polycarbonate. I don't know this for sure, but that's how I could rationalize this application. That being said, polycarbonate is better than plexiglass for robotics because plexiglass will shatter like in above video.

PAR_WIG1350 17-12-2011 22:41

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
based on the second and third incidents from this video (apparently from the same game), it seems to be laminated, at least in some venues, so that it doesn't send shards of plastic everywhere when it does shatter.

quinxorin 18-12-2011 00:27

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92 (Post 1091962)
They in fact use plexiglass. Having played hockey and seen the stuff shatter, it REALLY shatters everywhere. Video evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB9CMKHGjag

As for how they "get away with it", my guess would be a difference in yield strengths. It may take much more force to shatter the plexiglass rather than bend the polycarbonate. I don't know this for sure, but that's how I could rationalize this application. That being said, polycarbonate is better than plexiglass for robotics because plexiglass will shatter like in above video.

It's also that breaking the glass looks really cool and earns them higher ratings, so they want to do it.

ratdude747 18-12-2011 16:16

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350 (Post 1091966)
based on the second and third incidents from this video (apparently from the same game), it seems to be laminated, at least in some venues, so that it doesn't send shards of plastic everywhere when it does shatter.

it was also in the same period...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4f3q...eature=related

must have been on a hot streak.

as for why, lexan costs a lot more than plexiglass... and glass and perhaps even plexiglass is much more scratch resistant... lexan is a softer material and is more scratch prone. given the amount of contact the panels see, it wouldn't take long for dust scratches to ruin the panels...

zaphodp.jensen 18-12-2011 18:15

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350 (Post 1091775)
Just a word of caution, Plexiglass is acrylic, which shatters on impact; The palates had polycarbonate, which doesn't shatter under normal conditions and bends to absorb impacts rather than failing completely. I don't recommend using plexiglass on or near the robots for anything, but polycarbonate is a good material for FRC when it is properly used.

Sorry there, I mistakenly wrote the wrong material. Anyway, I believe everyone knows what I am talking about...;)

Andrew Lawrence 02-01-2012 13:32

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Are we sure we go everything out of this? Did we scrutinize it completely for every possible detail? Maybe we aren't getting something.

ttldomination 02-01-2012 13:47

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1095352)
Are we sure we go everything out of this? Did we scrutinize it completely for every possible detail? Maybe we aren't getting something.

We've been doing this since about page 2.



- Sunny G.

pandamonium 02-01-2012 14:28

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
that last post is a little over the top but the point is valid. That is the way these threads normally go though they are twice as long. :)

Sean Raia 02-01-2012 14:36

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
For the sake of entertainment, im rather happy that this is back on the top of the portal.

O.K so what is left to dissect on this hint that we haven't yet?
*crickets*

Ninja_Bait 02-01-2012 15:02

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1095354)
We've been doing this since about page 2.



- Sunny G.

Quoted to once again try and kill this thread dead.

JaneYoung 02-01-2012 17:06

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait (Post 1095388)
Quoted to once again try and kill this thread dead.

You can't stop the signal...

Robert Cawthon 02-01-2012 20:01

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
"It Lives" just like Frankenstiens monster. :D

ratdude747 03-01-2012 01:17

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1095354)
We've been doing this since about page 2.



- Sunny G.

maybe the forum needs the attached smiley.

Andrew Schreiber 03-01-2012 01:41

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneYoung (Post 1095445)
You can't stop the signal...

Wanna put some money down on that Jane? I bet you a certain Mr Martus can (and will) kill the signal sometime tomorrow evening for about 30-60 minutes. I just hope the transition goes well and things can be shiny on kickoff.

JaneYoung 03-01-2012 10:38

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1095676)
Wanna put some money down on that Jane?

If CD is down, it won't stop the chatter, er, signal.

:)

No bets. I'd win.

Jane

Daniel_LaFleur 03-01-2012 11:16

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Raia (Post 1095371)
For the sake of entertainment, im rather happy that this is back on the top of the portal.

O.K so what is left to dissect on this hint that we haven't yet?
*crickets*

I've been wondering ... (and thats always a bad thing :yikes: )

What if the items on that list aren't the clue, but instead its the fact that it is a list that is the clue. It might signify sorting of some kind.


... Just a thought

Sean Raia 03-01-2012 11:29

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 1095719)
I've been wondering ... (and thats always a bad thing :yikes: )

What if the items on that list aren't the clue, but instead its the fact that it is a list that is the clue. It might signify sorting of some kind.


... Just a thought

Or maybe they are both part of the clue?
The list certaintly wont be a lie, so we can count on high speed counters being used on the field. But yes, i would think "sorting" or "stacking" is going to be a theme in this game.

PAR_WIG1350 03-01-2012 16:51

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
maybe the field, like the list, has rows and columns.They could be different scoring areas or something.

James Kuszmaul 03-01-2012 19:19

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Instead of inner tubes or balls or tetrahedrons, it will be a water balloon game, where robots have to take as many water balloons they can from their side and carry them across to the other side and dump them on the opponent's side. different color balloons are in different places and count for different points (similar to this year's game), and balloons may not leave your robots frame except in certain areas near the bins where you are placing/picking up water balloons. :p

Or maybe it is a boring game just like all the others in previous years, no water, no fire, no fun :rolleyes:

Andrew Lawrence 03-01-2012 19:20

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Raia (Post 1095720)
Or maybe they are both part of the clue?
The list certaintly wont be a lie, so we can count on high speed counters being used on the field. But yes, i would think "sorting" or "stacking" is going to be a theme in this game.

Well then, I guess your haven't seen the extremely high speed stacking the robots did in 2003! :p

Ninja_Bait 03-01-2012 19:21

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Kuszmaul (Post 1095881)
Instead of inner tubes or balls or tetrahedrons, it will be a water balloon game, where robots have to take as many water balloons they can from their side and carry them across to the other side and dump them on the opponent's side. different color balloons are in different places and count for different points (similar to this year's game), and balloons may not leave your robots frame except in certain areas near the bins where you are placing/picking up water balloons. :p

Or maybe it is a boring game just like all the others in previous years, no water, no fire, no fun :rolleyes:

I think this year, we will build a robot that will pelt the opposing alliance with the balloons and "clean" their electronics.

Andrew Lawrence 03-01-2012 19:23

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait (Post 1095886)
I think this year, we will build a robot that will pelt the opposing alliance with the balloons and "clean" their electronics.

Well, that technically is gracious professionalism. Where outside of FIRST will other teams gladly help you wash your robot and clean out your electrical board?

James Kuszmaul 03-01-2012 19:24

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait (Post 1095886)
I think this year, we will build a robot that will pelt the opposing alliance with the balloons and "clean" their electronics.

yes, people do have such dirty electronics, I mean, why do they think they need that ugly, gray, blocky battery? And the red and black strings coming out of everything? I mean, it's so boring. They really need some pretty yellow and white to lighten things up.

JaneYoung 05-01-2012 13:48

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ratdude747 (Post 1095671)
maybe the forum needs the attached smiley.

Your smiley is awesome. Maybe you could send it to Brandon Martus and ask him if he could fit it into the group of choices.

Jane

Robert Cawthon 07-01-2012 09:10

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Who knew that the first hint would be the last? I was hoping for more since I enjoy watching everyone dig for the truth. Bill, here's hoping you do better next year! More hints! I also miss Dave's red herrings. Both wound up our brains (and, to a certain extent, our virtual mouths where we say things that we know are way out in left field, maybe not even in the ball park) and kept the CD rumor mill forum humming. ;)

Team 3705 07-01-2012 11:31

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
HELL YEAH! OMG, we won the safety animation award :D.

Go Team 3705- Arrowbots!

CNettles11 07-01-2012 20:30

Re: First Official 2012 Game Hint
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CNettles11 (Post 1088519)
...I speculate that it will be a basketball style game...

Called it.


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