221 system Universial chassis?
 

hello I was wondering if any one had used the 221 systems rolling chassis package? If so...

-How did you like it?
-What problems did you have with it?
-Would you chose it over kit bot on steroids? (a kit bot with 6in placation wheels and SS)?
-How did you do bumper mounts to it?
-Would you pick this chassis again?

And anything else you have to add would be great!

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

It looks solid and simple, like most WCD's. We haven't used it, but I think you could make it yourself easily and more cheaply. You don't even need a mill; You could probably make the equivalent with a dremel and a wrench. That's my attitude towards all the 221 products and a lot of the AndyMark pre-designed products - that the only thing that warrants their purchase is laziness or a thorough lack of resources or competence. I will, however, defer to the opinion of those who've used it.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

I have personally not bought or used a 221 drive system in competition. I know that 27 (Rush) used the Super Light chassis system this past year and from my observations it ran perfectly. I have no idea if anyone has used the universal.

You would have to get in touch with the people over on 27 for these answers.

I personally would use the kitbot on steroids based on the cost factor. The 2012 kit will most likely come with the kit frame.

Kitbot on Steroids:
Kitbot: Included in the price for the kit.
6" Plaction wheels: 6 @ $29.99 USD= $179.94 USD
Supershifters: 2 @ $360 USD= $720 USD
Total: $899.94 USD plus the cost of the kit and shipping

Universal Chassis:
Chassis With 6" Plaction: $1050 USD
Supershifters: 2 @ $360 USD= $720 USD
Total: $1770 USD plus the cost of the kit and shipping

On the 221 website they show you how to do bumper mounts. Not sure if the sell the physical mounts, but they seem easy enough to manufacture in house.

You would have to ask someone who has used this chassis.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

Well its because of repeated accuracy and what we have learned is human error is too great to do those thing with just a drill press and a dremel. Plus I would NEVER try to make a custom drive base during build season that our team has never built before. The only reason I'm looking at the 221 because its basically a KOP and it come with assembly instructions.

We already have a KoS. But we do not like how hard it is to use chain on it and we would like to use this system because of its ease of chain tensioning. We calculated the base w/o wheels and the gear box and it would be around 500-600$.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

Chain tensioning can be done with a piece of PVC with two holes drilled into the sides and mounted to the frame. I built a KOP chassis and did this and it worked out great.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

Teams also design other sliding tensioning methods, like idler sprockets or sliding bearing blocks. (I'd warn against the latter; we tried it and it resulted in insanity for those who had to try and get the wheels straight and properly tension and lined up with each other, including myself. :ahh:)

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

I have seen many idler sprockets and am not a huge fan of them. But the sliding bearing blocks are great.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

I would love to use sliding bearin blocks but they include lots of machining. And we used idler sprockets in low speed area's and we love them. This system comes with bearing blocks <3.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

PVC spacers mounted in between the side rails make for great chain tensors. We run them on the Kit Frame without problems.
Designing and building your own West Coast Drive or similar isn't that hard, provided you have basic milling machining available to you.
I want to see if my team can put this together before kick off: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/37147

Our breaking blocks are just a piece of 1/4 alum plate with 3 holes. One big one in the middle for a press fit bearing, and 2 on the side for 1/4-20s to mount them, not a lot of machining.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

We have had the honor of having 221 as a sponsor since 2010 and we have found that their products are simple yet highly effective and can give newer FRC teams the high quality and robust chassis of a veteran team at a pretty reasonable cost.

In 2010 we used the UC and loved the whole system; we were up and driving in three days. Our robot itself wasn’t the best (focused too much on hanging, not so much kicking…whoops) but it drove like a dream. Last year we moved on to 221's Rock Box Chassis rail system along with 221’s SuperShifter adaptor kits. This system allowed us to design a bit more into our own chassis structure, but gave us the robustness and simplicity that 221 offers in all of their products.

As for problems, the UC was great and it took a beating and never failed us. Same goes for the Rock Box, we played almost 90 matches (2 districts, states, worlds, MARC, IGVC, and IRI) until we had to switch out a cam tensioners, which was still only a 10-15 minute fix. To put it simple, this chassis was a tank.

As for bumpers, we just created our own method of mounting, using a double nut/bolt system, I’m sure you can take an hour or two to develop something.

We plan on using the Rock Box again for the 2012 season, and 221 is already on board with us. They have been a tremendous sponsor for 3098. 221’s chassis systems still allow students to get involved in the engineering process and development, but what I really like is how it allows my team to focus on more of the mechanisms in/on our robots.

If you go to 221's media page, check out 3098, that's our 2011 bot.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

I have used team 221 drive systems for the past 2 years and they work flawlessly. Team 27 has been using this system for years and it works great for them. We used the universal chassis last year and are going to hopefully use the super light this year. It all depends on the game. There are some new improvements that Anthony has made to the super light that are better than the universal. It is a great system and easy to put together. We assembled the entire system in about an hour. The tensioning system is great. It is nice to be able to use a tough box or super shifter with this system. It also allows for 6wd or 8wd. I would recommend this drive to anyone. Anthony is great to work with.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

I few things on 221's website seem out of stock. Does anyone know if they're planning to re-stock them? I'm specifically interested in the super shifter conversion plates.

If someone could manufacture the flanged sliding bearing plates for a WCD-type drive, I'd have a much better chance of convincing our team to do WCD. We can mill the slots in 2x1 very nicely. However, making a 1.125" hole that doesn't have so much slop the bearing won't stay in ... that's a whole other story.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

Agreed! He works well with the kids on our team as well as the mentors. He wants everyone to achieve and understand what's going on in 221's designs and will answer any question with detail.

Re: 221 system Universial chassis?
 

The Supershifter and Toughbox mounts for our Superlight chassis are now in stock, just changed them. :)

The Supershifter mount for the Universal Chassis will be back in stock in time for kickoff.....as will all of our chassis products.

We make the bearing holes in our chassis rail using decided low-tech methods. We use a standard silver and demming 1" drill and then follow that with a 1.125" reamer. This generates a slip fit. No need for a press as the bearings are trapped in place with the rest of the running gear. If you can make a nice pocket, then you should definitely be able to make a nice bearing hole.

You could buy the bearing blocks we use in our Universal Chassis if you wanted to make a live axle setup.