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-   -   pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98808)

thefro526 13-12-2011 15:41

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rcmolloy (Post 1090869)
Oh I see where you're going with this one Dustin. The topic that we were discussing about makes sense then.



...Or just give them to me for hand delivery dude. We don't live that far away.

Hehehehe. I don't know if you're fully aware of how ridiculous our current project is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley (Post 1090876)
I've been making a variation of the press-fit Colson hub since 05 using the same principle. If I'm seeing the hub correctly, it looks like its knurled which is something I've had great success with as well.

Looking good.

-Brando

Brando, Technically the hubs aren't knurled. The grooving that is visible in the picture was done by running a tool at a relatively high rate across each plug. Technically, it's not the right way to create a strong press because the cuts are in the same direction as the wheels would see force but I'm very happy with the results so we'll probably just stick with this method since it's easy for our Lathe guy to knock out - and it's pretty easy to replicate in house with minimal skill/effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1090878)
For season I see the resources used to make the double sprockets better used elsewhere, and instead just purchase off the shelf sprockets.

Adam, you're right on the money with this. I doubt we'll do a run of double sprockets again unless they're absolutely needed or it makes sense to do so.

This entire project is heavily influenced by a few factors:

-We wanted to try some new construction methods.
-We wanted to build a lighter more competitive drive than what we used in 2008.
-We wanted to move to an 'assembly' style build method.
-The shop foreman at our machine shop told me to design something 'interesting' for his guys to make - one thing lead to another and yeah....

Here are some more pictures for those of you that are interested:




craigboez 13-12-2011 18:45

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 1090859)
The part on the right is a 'plug' for a 2" wide colson wheel, made from 6061 AL. Preliminary testing shows that the press is good to at least 80 foot-pounds of torque.

I assume your hex broach goes all the way thru the ~2" wide Colson hub. Did you have any issues hex broaching that length? The Dumont literature states the max length of cut is 1-3/8" but that is based on mild steel. I'm curious what it can do in aluminum.

Cory 13-12-2011 19:23

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by craigboez (Post 1090926)
I assume your hex broach goes all the way thru the ~2" wide Colson hub. Did you have any issues hex broaching that length? The Dumont literature states the max length of cut is 1-3/8" but that is based on mild steel. I'm curious what it can do in aluminum.

I can tell you from our experience that would likely be a problem and require it to be broached multiple times, or from both sides (with a standard push broach). It's going to take a LOT of force too, since you have so much tooth engagement.

ttldomination 13-12-2011 19:53

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1090878)
For season I see the resources used to make the double sprockets better used elsewhere, and instead just purchase off the shelf sprockets.

Where do you guys go for your off the shelf double sprockets?

- Sunny G.

AdamHeard 13-12-2011 20:21

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
We just use two single sprockets. Makes all of our drive sprockets the exact same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1090943)
Where do you guys go for your off the shelf double sprockets?

- Sunny G.


craigboez 13-12-2011 21:38

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1090943)
Where do you guys go for your off the shelf double sprockets?

- Sunny G.

AndyMark has a few
http://www.andymark.com/SearchResult...ouble+sprocket

waialua359 14-12-2011 03:07

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Team 2348 has been making our double sprockets for the past 5 seasons for our "West Coast" bicycle chain drive.
As suggested, we should instead just buy them if possible. A lot of time, energy and round stock is used.

thefro526 14-12-2011 08:54

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1090938)
I can tell you from our experience that would likely be a problem and require it to be broached multiple times, or from both sides (with a standard push broach). It's going to take a LOT of force too, since you have so much tooth engagement.

As far as I can tell, the Colson hex may need to be cleaned up a bit. It seems to need to be opened up by a few thousandths, or we might just undersize our shafts a bit. The press we used was massive, I can get the tonnage if anyone wants it. Didn't seem like it took too much force compared to the depth of the broach.

Brandon Holley 14-12-2011 09:01

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 1090892)
Brando, Technically the hubs aren't knurled. The grooving that is visible in the picture was done by running a tool at a relatively high rate across each plug. Technically, it's not the right way to create a strong press because the cuts are in the same direction as the wheels would see force but I'm very happy with the results so we'll probably just stick with this method since it's easy for our Lathe guy to knock out - and it's pretty easy to replicate in house with minimal skill/effort.


Ah- yes the mental picture popped into place. Knurling is really REALLY simple (and pretty cool). It could be something you guys experiment with now, especially since you already have the lathe, etc.

The gearbox plate looks good. I assume bearings will be pressed into it. I'd be curious to see what results you get as far as the tolerance on the press fit from a waterjet. We've had access to a waterjet for a while, and we use it for a lot of things. One thing I've always been wary about is bearing holes though. We usually will cut out almost the entire part and then go back to correct the bearing holes with a secondary process.

-Brando

thefro526 14-12-2011 09:20

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley (Post 1091077)
Ah- yes the mental picture popped into place. Knurling is really REALLY simple (and pretty cool). It could be something you guys experiment with now, especially since you already have the lathe, etc.

The gearbox plate looks good. I assume bearings will be pressed into it. I'd be curious to see what results you get as far as the tolerance on the press fit from a waterjet. We've had access to a waterjet for a while, and we use it for a lot of things. One thing I've always been wary about is bearing holes though. We usually will cut out almost the entire part and then go back to correct the bearing holes with a secondary process.

-Brando

We might experiment with knurling in house before build, but we have about a dozen other parts that are on the priority list first. Our sponsor can knurl if we absolutely needed it too.

The bearings are more of a tight slip fit then a true press. I can get a good measure on the bore when I go to the shop tonight. We have originally intended to ream the holes under the assumption that they'd run under, but they came out of the waterjet just right it seems.

Got one of the finished Sprockets:


thefro526 30-12-2011 21:13

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
We hit some snags with the kids on winter break, so the axles are keeping us from getting this guy running. Here's how we left it before the Holidays:



My lathe guy assured me that our parts would be done by our next meeting, so we'll see if this thing runs before Kick-off.

Here's a render of the finished product that I may as well post up since someone (Andrew...) made me talk about it in the EWCP Christmas Cast:



And Brando, to follow up, I had the chance to test the press fit on one of the colson plugs at the machine shop with a few of the guys. Pressed the hub into the colson, clamped the wheel into the vice, then used a Torque Wrench to apply Torque. We found out that I wan't strong enough to apply more than 80 ft-lbs of Torque before stopping. (Interestingly enough, the tread of the wheel started to deform after ~50ft-lbs of TQ or so, pretty sure they'll rarely see more than that during competition.)

Brandon Holley 31-12-2011 10:25

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 1094701)
We hit some snags with the kids on winter break, so the axles are And Brando, to follow up, I had the chance to test the press fit on one of the colson plugs at the machine shop with a few of the guys. Pressed the hub into the colson, clamped the wheel into the vice, then used a Torque Wrench to apply Torque. We found out that I wan't strong enough to apply more than 80 ft-lbs of Torque before stopping. (Interestingly enough, the tread of the wheel started to deform after ~50ft-lbs of TQ or so, pretty sure they'll rarely see more than that during competition.)

Sweetness.

Yeah with those what I assume are polypropylene hubs you can do quite a generous interference fit. I think last year I had a .010" interference and pressed the hubs in with no problems, and never had an issue with slipping them. I imagine you will see similar success.

I'm curious about the 10WD tho. Are you guys just playing around with possibilities, or do you feel there is a strategic advantage to the 10WD?

Looks slick.

-Brando

Akash Rastogi 31-12-2011 12:57

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley (Post 1094810)
I'm curious about the 10WD tho. Are you guys just playing around with possibilities, or do you feel there is a strategic advantage to the 10WD?

The 10wd is to test a couple drive configurations as you guessed.

Am I the only one who thinks Dustin's CAD looks like a bug for some reason?:rolleyes:

thefro526 31-12-2011 13:24

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley (Post 1094810)

I'm curious about the 10WD tho. Are you guys just playing around with possibilities, or do you feel there is a strategic advantage to the 10WD?

-Brando

Haha, this is the question that everyone has asked.

10WD is is to change Drive trains on the fly, we can pull two bolts and make it an 8WD, Four bolts to man a 6WD, so on and so fourth. Should help the kids get a real world understanding of Drive trains.

The side note to this is that we'll be using this as a testing rig to see what wheel configurations perform the best and to see if the number of wheels increases and or decreases performance. Should be interesting...

Brandon Holley 31-12-2011 15:19

Re: pic: 816's 2011 Off-Season Teaser
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526 (Post 1094836)
Haha, this is the question that everyone has asked.

10WD is is to change Drive trains on the fly, we can pull two bolts and make it an 8WD, Four bolts to man a 6WD, so on and so fourth. Should help the kids get a real world understanding of Drive trains.

The side note to this is that we'll be using this as a testing ring to see what wheel configurations perform the best and to see if the number of wheels increases and or decreases performance. Should be interesting...


So are the center 6 wheels all on the same plane?


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