Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Well, so far its only been 1 game hint (which was posted 17 days ago), since its been so long since the hint, do you think they plan on putting another one out or are they done?
I was really hoping for a fun Hint this year, really been my 1st time checking for them... :mad:

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Inevitably. They always drop at least one during the kickoff speeches... :D

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

They've got a little under three weeks to post it--patience may be required.

I mean really, have you ever tried to schedule Dean and the scuba diving trainer in Manchester in winter? ;)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Probably sometime this week or next week. They'd logically release it around the halfway point between hint #1 and kickoff.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I bet even the GDC is still trying to figure out the last one =P

But 17 days since the first one, 19 days until Kickoff...tomorrow is looking pretty good for a nice halfway-mark ;)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Last year, we didn't receive the first game hint until 12-21. The second was released 1-04. This was only 4 days before kickoff. We may have another 2 weeks before our next hint (if there is a second hint).

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Is the lack of a hint a hint in itself? Perhaps they are indicating that we have already figured it out.

Because it's a water game, and we knew it all along. :rolleyes:

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Doubt it will be a water game, but always a possibility.

For the game hint #2 it may come soon or it may not it all depends on GDC.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

or maybe the whole point is 1.

maybe 1 alliance? maybe 1 goal? perhaps 1 game piece? maybe 1 driver?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Most definitely, it may not be this year though.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

2001 was one alliance, one goal, so they've already done that. 11 years later? Lots of 1's in there.

11 years after 2001
1 year after 2011
1 alliance
1 hint


It's clear.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

There will be exactly one water game.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

and that already happened in 1993. rug rage. water filled balls.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Aha, we solved the hint. This year's game is DEFINITELY NOT A WATER GAME. Trolls defeated for good.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I randomly realized this; 2500 photosensors are not on the 1st game hint, but the Line Trackers were provided by Rockwell Automation... Guess we aren't following lines this year.

On the 2011 KOP list was made me think that.
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...c-kit-of-parts

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

It is quite possible that they are not planning on releasing another game hint until quite close to the kickoff, because I feel like we got really close to the actual game with the first hint, due to all of the information provided inside that parts list. Usually, the game hints are a cryptic picture, like with Breakaway, which was a picture of the ball return flipped upside down... but with all of the information they gave us with the parts list, it could be that they are worried that we know too much... ;)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Riddle, Riddle, Riddle, Riddle, picture, {IR receiver, GPS coordinates, anagram/riddle}, {picture, riddle), CAD picture x2, picture x2, parts list
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

By my count, that's 6 riddles, 6 pictures, and 3 miscellaneous puzzles in the last 10 hint seasons. (To be fair, two riddles were simply equations or lines from songs.)

Most recently, pictures have been the medium of choice... but for the old-timers, you can't beat a riddle! Especially with the diabolical ways that any given riddle could be turned around to point towards the game in multiple ways. So many ways to interpret a line like "seeing Montana's green heights" (2006 hint, last line of the riddle) that point to a tall target, throwing things, and using the camera to see green... Just as an example, you understand. Imagine what that would to to you in full context.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

line sensors are on the FIRST Choice list... so that means nothing. only some teams actually used the sensors for logomotion...

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I'd like a riddle again. Those are fun, though I don't know that we ever fully solved the one from 2009...


But if line tracking is a component of the field, it would be in the KOP. If it hadn't been included in the kit and some teams wanted to do line tracking, but couldn't afford a sensor, there would be a lot of complaining. They wouldn't be adequately prepared for the game. While having it through FIRST Choice helps, not everybody gets what they want (similar to the Tetrix kits last year).

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The only context for that list is "Rockwell Automation has again agreed to generously donate components we need for the 2012 FRC season. Check it out. You may find it very interesting." It was never explicitly said that the list is what Rockwell donated, much less whether it was all they donated or if it was all FIRST was ever going to buy or get donated to by Rockwell.

I'm willing to bet there will be lines on the field this year due to the FIRST Choice thing and because they worked well last year (and since there are always some sort of lines that are reflective)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I think we didnt get close at all on the first hint, people interpreted it too bluntly. They are never that obvious as people have guessed.

So on topic: they will most likely release one this week... If at all.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Not 'always'. True, there are lines on the field each year, but they're not always reflective, or at least not in the sense you're thinking. If memory serves me, 2003, 2004, 2005 (Not too sure on this one) and 2011, are the only games that had lines on the field specifically for tracking.

2006 and 2007 encouraged vision tracking, 2008 relied heavily on the IR board, 2009 encouraged vision tracking (and just moving, really), 2010 encouraged vision tracking, and 2011 was the first game in recent memory that specifically encouraged line tracking. (Note this is all in reference to Autonomous Mode, and just because something was encouraged doesn't mean it was 'necessary'.)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

"We don't have a second hint? It IS a water game. Nothing is like a hole, because it is empty. what can you fill a hole with? water. Or magnets." <<<< Postitive proof of a water game, as said by a student on our team.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

well, didn't 2010 have a single line down the middle that teams could track to go through the tunnel nicely?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Heavens, I hope not.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The 'Center Line' on the 2010 Field wasn't explicitly there for line tracking. It's primary purpose was to divide the field into a left and right side for pre-match positioning and to give a 'do not cross' point in autonomous.

I'm sure you could have tracked the line if you wanted but then you risked violating G18.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

May i ask why?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The way I count, we have already received two hints, quite possibly 3.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

What is the other one/two?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I count 3 hints as well, KineKt, Heavy field, and sensors.

The 20th of December has come but not past...

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Not 2005--the only lines on the field were marking the Home Zone for start/endgame. There were marker lines, but those marked Vision Tetra positions.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I count:
#1a - http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...your-week.html
#1b - http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/press...inect-for-2012
#1c - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/alfredth/arc...the-robot.aspx
#2 - http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...-creaking.html
#3 - http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...me-hint-1.html

IMHO more useful info released above pre-season than any previous 'hints'

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

But 1c is not an actual FIRST sponsored hint...

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

From "Hint #2" we know this year's game will involve Legos :) (look up "200 Bedford Street Manchester, NH 03101" in google and click on the first link for the see science center their main exhibit is a Lego thing) and its the 25th anniversity of the science center

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Using NXTs? I hope it's not minibots again...

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

If it is minibots, I hope it's a true autonomous, NXT-brick-controlled situation wherein one must design for something other than all-out speed.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Making FLL-ish bots would be sort of neat, not too expensive, not too hard to make, and they wouldn't require us to burn out thousands (talking all of FRC teams here) of $30 motors............

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I really don't want to be forced to build 30 minibots again to be competitive all season. It was too expensive, too much time and too little advantage when as soon as teams saw our minibot, 40's, and 190's deployment week 2 last year everyone else copied them and didn't run through the same development iterations we did but were able to capitalize on our work.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Disclaimer: I disliked minibots as I felt it was a drain on resources for many teams. I'm just playing devils advocate.

<devils advocate>
How is this any different than what happened in 2010 with the collectors? Or has happened in the years since the early 2000's with the copying of 254/60's drive system? Or since 2003 with the TechnoKats transmissions? Point is that a lot of engineering is stealing from the best.
</devils advocate>

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

In the case of minibots the rules were written in a way to encourage copying of someone elses design during the build season. Mini-bots were specifically excluded from the witholding allowance to encourage bringing many of them so they wouldn't count against your robot witholding allowance.

In the case of the 2010 collectors you had to trade a new collector with other upgrade parts more carefully because of the weight of the system, but it is generally the same.

As for copying WCD most teams can't do that in the middle of build season and comply with witholding rules, and when WCD was introduced you really couldn't carry something like that in pre-made because the spare/replacement parts rules were far more restrictive.

The T-kats shifter they published the design for all to use after the season. Again you couldn't walk in to a regional with the parts pre-made slap them on and go.

The minibot you could see a few pictures and know most of the stuff we tested endlessly to figure out.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Anyone else note that in 1a, Bill spells "peek" meaning "look behind something" as "peak" meaning "High point of a field"?
Forgive me if someone already noted this, in either this or another thread.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I hope they get rid of minibots completely. I'd much rather have a challenge like building a hanging mechanism or climbing on top of another robot than play around with an nxt like I did 4 years ago.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

me too but i guess minibots are the "future" of FIRST Robotics :/

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I think Minibots were amazing, aside from their extreme regulations.
They seemed to be a really crowd pleaser for the spectators.

On topic: Still no hint?? I really hope there's one tomorrow. I want something (new) to speculate on!

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Patience, grasshopper.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I still havent completely solved the official Hint #1...it's a lot to soak in (maybe the GDC thought we needed more time on this one because it's so big)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I didn't think he was from team 95 ;)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I wish there was a like button on Chief Delphi. :) -hits like button-

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

What was the 1st Hint anyway?
:yikes: By the way Water + Electricity = Bad Magic Smoke::safety::

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

And bad magic dancing participants.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The list of materials from rockwell

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The flip side of the coin is that many teams, for whatever reason (i.e. not fundraising enough) simply did not have a budget big enough to really work on minibots. I know we copied entirely because we wanted to have something vaguely competitive without sinking $60 every time we made any kind of mistake. We didn't budget for that and we certainly couldn't add that unexpected cost to our budget once the season began.

So basically, the teams that could afford to really participate in the minibot challenge didn't get to keep their advantage, and the teams that couldn't afford iterative design could either develop a substandard minibot or blindly copy others.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

We spent about $100 total and had the highest-scoring minibot at FLR. Sure, it wouldn't compete at Championship, and both 340 and 2053 had faster, but it was very, very consistent.

Instead of killing motors and buying loads and loads of new ones, we (a) bypassed the inductor once we'd burned them out and (b) put lower fuses in our electrical system. Then, when we finally had what we were happy with, we swapped out for COTS motors.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

We spent a bit more than that, but that's mostly because none of us had any experience with Tetrix parts (and the "fragile" motors).

I honestly hope that we do have something similar to the mini-bots this year. It was a fascinating variation on the game, and introduced a new line of thinking. And, yes, I hope that the mini-bots will be intelligent, although I would hope that they don't limit us to Tetrix; those can be expensive.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I have wondered if this was some kind of hint
Bills Blog August 23, 2011

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

antistatic shrinkwrap?

or for teams who are celebrating xmas, gift wrap? (anybody else dream about finding one under the tree?)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Just my two cents being an alumni now their have been several hints throughout BIlls blog the steep hill the kinect a heavy fields althought its prolly not a water game it will have an Automonus teleop and kinect phase for the ending and for the kinect im guessing you use hand motion to coontol ur robot up a hill and massive scoring element in the middle:cool:

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Bill hasn't posted yet this week. Expect one very soon..

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

STILL no hint #2? This is madness.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

im guessing later today. He usually releases it later in the day I think.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Perhaps the lack of an official second hint is a hint.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

2005: tetrahedral (open shape) game
2006: nerf ball game
2007: tube game
2008: exercise ball game
2009: open shape sphere game
2010: soccer ball game
2011: tube game

pattern?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

YES! :ahh: All of them are GAMES! :D /sarcasm/

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

True, but you're missing the REAL pattern. This is a cycle that MUST end in 2012: water game!

:rolleyes:

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

GENIUS! :D This is a once-in-a-life-time-completely-awesome-totally-original idea! And yes, that is one word. :)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Dont people use exercise balls in water?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

i openly welcome our large game piece overlords

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Bill DID say that it was a heavy field..

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

To answer the original question: Yes, we will get a "hint #2". It may not be for this game, but eventually, we WILL get a "hint #2".

All sarcasm aside, I think that the first hint was a bit early, and though it's shame on FIRST for making this long waiting period between hints, I can assume another one is coming in the days ahead. If memory serves correct (though I don't trust my memory), we got a hint a few days before kickoff in 2011.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

In FIRST's efforts to make FTC mentoring quasi-mandatory, they will make us play with 16lb bowling balls. you have to bowl the balls on a lane, using the high speed sensors. you have to use minibots to reset the pins :D

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

i was saying more in volume, but i can imagine the carnage of 16 lb bowling balls being thrown across the field and at mini-bots

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I'd like to throw a bowling ball at minibots...

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I would so love another game hint!

It feels kind of like a happy puppy waiting for someone to throw that tennis ball. Waiting.. waiting.. waiting... I really hope I don't start drooling, jumping, and barking - that would be embarrassing even for me.

:)
Jane

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Maybe the next hint will be a lightly-encrypted fake game manual.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Guys, the second game hint was a donated parts list from Banebots. Sadly it, like the gearboxes, has a 2-5 week lead time.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Wait, really? I never saw that. FIRST wouldn't release game hints early like that. If they really did release a list, then I doubt it would have been a hint.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

That would be great! It would be awesome to read the second hint in mid-January!

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Has anyone seen this logo before? I haven't. Maybe I've missed the "smiley" motif as an official FIRST design. If not, could this be something related to this year's game?

http://www.logolocltd.com/frcstore/Tees.html

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Never seen it before. In fact, I've been on that tshirt page a few times and never have seen those shirts before. Maybe they are something. Maybe they're not. Who knows (aside from the GDC)?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Looks like it was something from 2004. Quotes are from that year as well.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

maybe another multigame remix like in 04?

like the balls from 2006, the bumps like in 2010, the regolith from 2009, and crazy lane penalties from this year, and god forbid, minibot towers... that would be a crazy game... imagine trying to cross bumps on the regolith using rover wheels :eek:

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

For once, I'd actually not do FRC one year if that happened.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

http://first.logolocltd.com/accessor...tressRelv.html


Found in FIRST store... </grasping at straws>

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

regolith is the devil, especially with the required wheels

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Looks like a Lunacy ball. No wonder it's a "stress" ball! /youseewhatIdidthere?/

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

But are they game hints? Why would FIRST risk a leak of this years' game by letting in other companies in on the design?

Any game hints would be posted on their own website. I can see making us dig through the source code on their website to find a game hint, but I can't see them posting it on an another website where you have to search online for it...

Anyway, right now, most of us are just grasping at straws...

Come on game hint...




Where are you?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Well at least we know this years field is carpet with the carpet tape on one of bills november posts. But there was also carpet under the regolith in 2009 so who knows

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

So, as usual, we know pretty much nothing for sure. Curse you GDC! /fistshake

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Very first line in one of Bills many blogs....
Looking back at this year look at the past disaster in Japan and the issues in the gulf. Think about maybe like a disaster recovery type of idea. And it is a water game...



"The tidal wave of field and game elements is on its way."
-First paragraph of bills blog 11/16/11


http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...-creaking.html

(Credit goes to a fellow member of team 3357 not me)

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

IDK if this is something, but I guess we're desperate for anything now:

Tweet on Andymark's website:


iR3Creative Modulox accessories ready to ship to @andymarkinc just in time for FRC 2012. More details at Modulox.com #omgrobots http://t.co/isvC5d5f

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Any hint at a water game is a red herring. They drop these occasionaly just to watch people over-analyze them. The t-shirt logos seem to tell us nothing. I wouldnt expect a hint today anyway, not when most people are going to be away from home busy with various parties/whathaveyou. I WOULD expect one tomorow. If they dont release one by monday i can assure you there will not be a new hint before kickoff.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Last year a hint was released 3 or 4 days before kickoff, so imma give them till Wednesday.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I must have missed that one. Oh GDC, y u no simply release hint now?

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Because they are on CD right now, watching this thread, and laughing at our torture.

Dean's probably sitting in his chair saying "Dance puppets, dance!"

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Or maybe they are trying to tell us we already guessed the game. People typically only give hints when the answer is still undiscovered

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I give them until wednesday. we WILL be receiving a hint #2 because they labeled the first one hint #1.. they would just say the 2012 game hint if there was only one. I dont expect one today or tomorrow on account of the holiday. But I do expect one monday tuesday or wednesday.

On the topic of a water game: If we have one the GDC will toy with us and make our robots use super soakers! darn you GDC!!

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

yea i give them till wensaday we maybe close but yet so far from the real game like the hint of the moon fish for lunacy the game prolly like the titanic sinking the heavy field rocks back and forth and you score points in a specific goal possible even minibot towers and smoke stacks

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

The next hint will be game hint #3. Everyone will go crazy trying to figure out which of the fake hints was hint #2. http://www.snopes.com/college/pranks/livestock.asp

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

I could see this happening to us. Gosh, I better get out of Chief Delphi before it's too late.

Re: Will we ever get a hint #2?
 

Maybe through the elongated period between the first hint and the second hint they're trying to show us that they still haven't fixed the all of the long field connection issues? :yikes: ;)