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-   -   How do I get the encrypted competition manual? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99135)

linuxboy 02-01-2012 01:20
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
I'll be hosting copies of the game manual at: http://frc-manual.heroku.com/

Does anyone else think we should make a separate thread to list places where people are hosting the manual?

Oliver

Andrew Lawrence 02-01-2012 01:22
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxboy (Post 1095228)
I'll be hosting copies of the game manual at: http://frc-manual.heroku.com/

Does anyone else think we should make a separate thread to list places where people are hosting the manual?

Oliver
A separate thread won't be necessary, however if you do have a separate host, hold onto it and wait until kickoff or the day before. Information like this, while extremely useful, is of no use to us now. For some, it may make their pre-season anxiety even worse. :p

Grim Tuesday 02-01-2012 01:34
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1095229)
A separate thread won't be necessary, however if you do have a separate host, hold onto it and wait until kickoff or the day before. Information like this, while extremely useful, is of no use to us now. For some, it may make their pre-season anxiety even worse. :p
At the same time, though, it might get lost in the post-kickoff dust storm. Speaking of that, are Chief Delphi's servers up for it? I remember hearing that they switched to a cloud hosted solution, but I wonder if it will work...

plnyyanks 02-01-2012 09:39
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1095230)
At the same time, though, it might get lost in the post-kickoff dust storm. Speaking of that, are Chief Delphi's servers up for it? I remember hearing that they switched to a cloud hosted solution, but I wonder if it will work...
Brandon says that they'll be able to dynamically add resources to their server to deal with increased traffic. So I'd assume they'd at least be able to handle it better than they did last year. Honestly, I'm more worried about FIRST's website will survive kickoff than CD.

ttldomination 02-01-2012 11:45
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by plnyyanks (Post 1095259)
Brandon says that they'll be able to dynamically add resources to their server to deal with increased traffic. So I'd assume they'd at least be able to handle it better than they did last year. Honestly, I'm more worried about FIRST's website will survive kickoff than CD.
I have a sneaky suspicion that even with this, CD will also crash after kickoff. She's a delicate one. Heck, I'm fairly sure CD will crash a couple of days before kickoff as users start logging in to finally read up on the hints and see what teams have been doing in the off-season.

- Sunny G.

DonRotolo 02-01-2012 12:01
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1095295)
I have a sneaky suspicion that even with this, CD will also crash after kickoff. She's a delicate one. Heck, I'm fairly sure CD will crash a couple of days before kickoff as users start logging in to finally read up on the hints and see what teams have been doing in the off-season.

- Sunny G.
Betcha you're wrong!

Now we only have to wait and see...:p

Grim Tuesday 02-01-2012 16:17
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
'Tis the season for Chief Delphi to rise above Reddit, Gmail, and Facebook in my chrome startpage. Right now it's sitting right around 6.

Mike AA 03-01-2012 13:21
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
FYI,

In years past, including last year the GDC frowned upon teams hosting the manual for the exact reasons many have said, amongst others, having a bad or expired copy when someone tries to download it could make them very upset with you.

Also, I believe I read a little while back that first too has gone to a cloud server company. This should alleviate the congestion we have had.

If everyone learns to "save" the files rather than just "read" this will also help with the congestion.

dlavery 03-01-2012 16:54
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxboy (Post 1095228)
I'll be hosting copies of the game manual at: http://frc-manual.heroku.com/

Does anyone else think we should make a separate thread to list places where people are hosting the manual?

Oliver
Actually, to go even a little bit further than Mike did in the previous post - remember that the FRC manual is a copyrighted work. Just because FIRST posts it on their servers for teams to download for their use does NOT mean that you can do the same. We have been through this many time on these forums. Copying a re-publishing the FRC manual without the express permission of FIRST is a violation of copyright laws, and it is illegal. The same thing is true for the game animation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Adams (Post 1094927)
Whether or not anyone but FIRST legally can distribute it without their permission is up for debate, I fail to see how sharing it through torrents is any different than hosting it on a server for direct download.
There is no debate about it. Republishing a copyrighted work without the express permission of the copyright holder is illegal. Period.

Have a question about this? Well, remember that the current president of FIRST is the former director of the US Patent and Trademark Office. I would be willing to bet that he has rather strong feelings on this topic (OK, no bet there at all - I know he does, we have talked about it before). He is quite familiar with the relevant law and exactly what rights FIRST has for the material that they own.

Now, realistically, will FIRST come running after you and have you arrested and/or fined for doing so? Unlikely, and I am sure that they have better things to do. Nonetheless, just because they don't have the resources to enforce this does not change the fact that you and your teams are supposed to be behaving honorably and professionally. You are on your honor to uphold and practice the legal and ethical standards that would be expected in any professional workplace. A violation of the law is a violation of the law. Would you do this as a part of your job? Would you do it if getting caught meant losing your job?

-dave




.

Andrew Schreiber 03-01-2012 16:59
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Furthermore, by reposting it you are providing a location where a potentially old version of the manual could be accessed by some team should your link show up to them before the official link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 1095784)
Actually, to go even a little bit further than Mike did in the previous post - remember that the FRC manual is a copyrighted work. Just because FIRST posts it on their servers for teams to download for their use does NOT mean that you can do the same. We have been through this many time on these forums. Copying a re-publishing the FRC manual without the express permission of FIRST is a violation of copyright laws, and it is illegal. The same thing is true for the game animation.

Now, realistically, will FIRST come running after you and have you arrested and/or fined for doing so? Unlikely, and I am sure that they have better things to do. Nonetheless, just because they don't have the resources to enforce this does not change the fact that you and your teams are supposed to be behaving honorably and professionally. You are on your honor to uphold and practice the legal and ethical standards that would be expected in any professional workplace. A violation of the law is a violation of the law. Would you do this as a part of your job? Would you do it if getting caught meant losing your job?

-dave
(Just thinking)
How does FIRST feel about the TechnoKat history project? They are rehosting old manuals. I think it is an important resource but at the same time I believe they are breaking copyright law unless they contacted FIRST specifically.

Chris is me 03-01-2012 17:06
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
I'm honestly curious why FIRST doesn't license the Manual under a Creative Commons license. I figure they would want as many people to have access to it as possible.

Scott L. 03-01-2012 17:37
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 1095784)
Actually, to go even a little bit further than Mike did in the previous post - remember that the FRC manual is a copyrighted work. Just because FIRST posts it on their servers for teams to download for their use does NOT mean that you can do the same. We have been through this many time on these forums. Copying a re-publishing the FRC manual without the express permission of FIRST is a violation of copyright laws, and it is illegal. The same thing is true for the game animation.



There is no debate about it. Republishing a copyrighted work without the express permission of the copyright holder is illegal. Period.

Have a question about this? Well, remember that the current president of FIRST is the former director of the US Patent and Trademark Office. I would be willing to bet that he has rather strong feelings on this topic (OK, no bet there at all - I know he does, we have talked about it before). He is quite familiar with the relevant law and exactly what rights FIRST has for the material that they own.

Now, realistically, will FIRST come running after you and have you arrested and/or fined for doing so? Unlikely, and I am sure that they have better things to do. Nonetheless, just because they don't have the resources to enforce this does not change the fact that you and your teams are supposed to be behaving honorably and professionally. You are on your honor to uphold and practice the legal and ethical standards that would be expected in any professional workplace. A violation of the law is a violation of the law. Would you do this as a part of your job? Would you do it if getting caught meant losing your job?

-dave




.
Here is the response from FIRST when i e-mailed them in a previous year
This back from our IT group:

"We would prefer they not mirror any documents because they could change and we don't have an automatic mechanism to notify folks of changes that would automatically ensure update of their document. "

Let us know if you have any additional questions.

FRC Teams.

Joe G. 03-01-2012 17:50
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
To get back to the original thread topic, the encrypted manual is now online

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...cuments?id=452

plnyyanks 03-01-2012 17:50
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
The 2012 encrypted game manual has been posted:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...cuments?id=452

EDIT: beat to it... mods, you can delete this if you want

Bot190 03-01-2012 18:02
Re: How do I get the encrypted competition manual?
 
I understand that we are breaking copyright laws by hosting the manual, but I feel as though FIRST should give us a better alternative. When their servers go down for the first few days after kick-off where are we supposed to get the manual? Without other teams graciously hosting the files, we would be unable to access the rules and unable to do anything for the first couple of days. Supposedly FIRST has done things to prevent this from happening this year, but I seem to remember them saying the same thing last year.
As such I will be creating a torrent of the unencrypted manual when it is released.


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