Chief Delphi - [EWCP] EWCPcast, 1-5-12 and 1-8-12, Twas the night before kickoff and Game Reactions

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-98466/TS-576829.mp3 Download Link

Here is the chat log from the cast. For those of you who were in there live I do apologize. We had our first troll come in and try to disrupt the cast... Least that's what I'm telling myself. If this was a member of the CD community... seek help immediately. I'm saddened that I even have to say this.

Code:

<schreiaj> We're getting started in about 10 minutes. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5 There is the link to the rough outline

<schreiaj> Laugh at how off topic we go. You know the deal.

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<Stogi> Dustin i'll call in a bit.

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<schreiaj> I'll unmute you shortly after that

<thefro526> Alright Akash,we're starting in 10 or so

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<jeffrodriguez> hey hey

<Stogi> kk need my mug of OJ

<BrendanB> oj!

<schreiaj> "OJ"

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<Stogi> "oj"

<jeffrodriguez> is it recording?

<schreiaj> Not yet

<jeffrodriguez> this is great stuff

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<schreiaj> the full District cast is available at http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/12/frc-districts-past/

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<thefro526> District Cast is really interesting

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<schreiaj> It was quite interesting actually, very enlightening (and I competed in districts since 2009)

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<jeffrodriguez> yeah

<jeffrodriguez> me

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<XaulZan11> Thanks for finally not hosting a cast during a football game 

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<jeffrodriguez> It would save me time making them right now

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<jwfoss> jeff jump on facebook

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<jeffrodriguez> there

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<Bryan33> Just a heads up I posted that this was starting soon on your CD thread 

<schreiaj> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5

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<SuperNerd256> Thanks Bryan. Your post got me here just in time! 

<Guest 20> I'm excited

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<Guest 20> I should make an account; Grim Tuesday btw

<Bryan33> Sure thing guys.

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<jwfoss> jeff you've got some more info on the facebook

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<Guest 27> Is EI a second-place Chairman's?

<BrendanB> kinda

<Guest 27> Is it a team adversity award?

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<Guest 27> Nobody knows.

<jeffrodriguez> thanks

<jtemple> EI is given as a JV Chairman's in some places

<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/05/17/chairmans-chat/

<schreiaj> More information on Chariman's awards

<BrendanB> You really have to listen to the description to get the idea of why it was given.

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<Guest 27> woah

<IndySam> rosebud

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The recording has started.

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<jeffrodriguez> you're always in trouble

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<schreiaj> Yeah yeah yeah

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<schreiaj> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5

<Baselthe2nd> I presume Jared is "SE Pennsylvania," just to be clear?

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<Stogi> yes

<Jared341> no this is jared

<Jared341> oh

<Jared341> on the phone

<BrendanB> who is SE PA?

<Jared341> yes 

<Stogi> weird

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<jeffrodriguez> book time at the pool to test your robot

<SuperNerd256> My mentor made the app! 

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<Stogi> Bring a notebook

<Guest 39> Has the cast started yet or am I doing something wrong?

<rtfgnow> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.appdelegates.frcmanual&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS5hcHBkZWxlZ2F0ZXMuZnJjbWFudWFsIl0.

<Baselthe2nd> It's started; you should be hearing things.

<rtfgnow> that is the android app

<Bryan33> and a Pen, I always seem to forget a pen..

<schreiaj> Thank you Alex

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<jeffrodriguez> bring a box of pens

<jeffrodriguez> everyone will love you

<schreiaj> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/frc-manual/id488793605?mt=8

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<Guest 27> Let's use globe motors!

<Guest 27> Oh wait.

<jeffrodriguez> ha

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<Baselthe2nd> Sudden lack of bumper rules?!

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<kabakowski> I think that would be noticed Basel

<BrendanB> must be a mistake bumpers are always complex

<schreiaj> I would dance in the streets

<BrendanB> no bumpers hallelujah~

<schreiaj> RTFGNOW would have to provide video

<Guest 27> No more bumpers=field in shambles

<schreiaj> Bah, we had fields for 16 yrs before bumpers

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<jeffrodriguez> yeah

<Guest 27> We have had three different systems

<jeffrodriguez> optional bumpers

<Guest 27> us seniors

<Guest 27> 5-5 teams are 1 seeds?

<Guest 27> what.

<BrendanB> loved no bumper years!

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<schreiaj> I miss wedges 

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<Guest 20> Question guys: Is it morally right to do that?

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<BrendanB> to do what?

<Guest 20> that being take advantage of the ranking system, ie, score on yourself a la 2010

<Guest 27> No, that was the big problem with it

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<BrendanB> yes. it is also called coopertition.

<XaulZan11> You play to win the competition not the match

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<rtfgnow> unfortunately some mentors/teachers/others force their morals on students

<Meredith16> It is morally right (IMHO) but NO FUN!!!

<Guest 44> Maybe they'll just include the bumper rules somewhere else in the currently-encrypted manual

<IndySam> It was fun when we did it ay IRI

<schreiaj> Maybe instead of bumpers on robots they will put them where they belong...

<schreiaj> on the bleachers

<BrendanB> ^like

<Guest 27> The competition is also a place to promote your awardability.

<Guest 20> Thanks a lot guys

<kabakowski> I wasn't fun for the manual scorers at IRI... ;P

<IndySam> But I gave you a shirt 

<rtfgnow> metric was bigger

<Guest 27> That silly cylinder

<jeffrodriguez> and that's why we crashed a rover into Mars

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<Guest 27> We had to shave stuff down for that 0_o

<schreiaj> And a rocket or two

<Stogi> BTW, Team 11 was nice enough to post the game manual in a zip file for those of you who are too lazy

<Stogi> http://mort11.org/static/manual/manual.zip

<Jared341> Thanks Akash

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<BrendanB> thanks akash!

<Baselthe2nd> Thank you!

<Guest 27> hosting on your site?

<Guest 27> Big deal alert

<karthik> Just remember, FIRST asks teams not to mirror the manual

<karthik> Caveat emptor

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<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/08/average-and-what-it-means-to-your-team/

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<jeffrodriguez> 4

<jeffrodriguez> ouch

<SuperNerd256> That could be because of defensive robots

<BrendanB> 5

<kabakowski> 3

<schreiaj> It isn't

<jeffrodriguez> 4

<XaulZan11> 6

<SuperNerd256> 6

<kabakowski> 0

<IanCurtis> 3

<pyeung45> 4

<jeffrodriguez> 0

<SuperNerd256> 3

<jeffrodriguez> trick question

<Guest 10> 5 per robot would be 15 per alliance

<SuperNerd256> YES!

<jeffrodriguez> 0

<jtemple> 0

<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/06/2010-scoring-analysis/

<BrendanB> 0

<pyeung45> 6-8

<XaulZan11> teams or alliances?

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<schreiaj> We did analysis on alliances

<schreiaj> Jim is talking teams

<IanCurtis> Going off what Karthik said, I did this the past couple of years to see just how bad people are at guessing scores

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s

<IanCurtis> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88384

<schreiaj> Ian your link broke

<IanCurtis> got it the 2nd time

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<schreiaj> kk

<jeffrodriguez> WIth all of these stats though, what are the averages if you take out the robots that don't score at all

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<schreiaj> So basically, the average of all teams that achieved the game challenge effectively

<schreiaj> -effectively

<Guest 20> Live role playing: How do you organize it, we had a disorganized mess when we tried it

<Guest 47> mmm bagels

<Bryan33> p

<Jared341> ^ easier for some games than for others

<Guest 20> we used humans as robots, should we use something else (ie, bagels?)

<Bryan33> *Sorry

<SuperNerd256> We role play by using teams of humans. Some score, some defend, etc. To make it more interesting, we make them use different drive trains.

<kabakowski> When we simulated it for breakaway, we had students pull robot types out of a hat

<kabakowski> It gave us a pretty good variety

<Stogi> put a kid on a dolly

<Stogi> push em around

<Stogi> ram into walls

<SuperNerd256> Saw it

<Stogi> cal it a day

<Stogi> call*

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<IanCurtis> @Jeff, just looking at Jim's OPR distr for 2011 I'd say it shifts it from 0-5 to 10-15.

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<Baselthe2nd> Excellent

<jeffrodriguez> hmm

<jeffrodriguez> that's what I thought

<Guest 20> fabulous

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<jeffrodriguez> @Ian

<Guest 58> kill yourself foss 

<jeffrodriguez> Moblie phones bro

<Guest 58> i want to see videoooos

<schreiaj> phones are hard Jeff

<SuperNerd256> I start brainstorming before the game video ends. 

<jeffrodriguez> Stop in Berlin on your way

<Guest 20> haha

<kabakowski> lolololol

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<jwfoss> we'll get it done

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<schreiaj> Berlin makes me crave donuts

<jeffrodriguez> ?

<Guest 58> this is james btw

<SuperNerd256> Of course half of it never works, but it's always fun to get my mind going

<schreiaj> no idea why

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<Guest 27> If you put a robot that runs 80% of the time

<Guest 27> you're in the top 40% of a given regional

<XaulZan11> just build a good drivetrain, know the rules and practice and your be above average

<SuperNerd256> If you have a moving base, you can succeed in a tournament, no matter the game

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<Guest 27> If you put a robot that does one good task 80% of the time, you're in the top 20% of a given regional

<SuperNerd256> Love you 1114! 

<Bryan33> Great Video, watched it eariler today.

<Stogi> < drive train that black

<Stogi> blocks*

<Guest 27> Don't suffer from First-Year Swerve Syndrome

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<Guest 27> Just go with a 6-wheel

<schreiaj> Nerd, Jim agreed to read some poetry earlier. Y ou probably get your wish.

<Guest 27> if you're lost

<jwfoss> 2006, best game ever

<SuperNerd256>  YAY!

<SuperNerd256> Thanks Jim!

<Guest 27> 2008 148

<jeffrodriguez> @Foss yes

<Guest 27> Drive in circles

<jimzondag> I have a sweet poem

<Guest 27> Win

<SuperNerd256> I REALLY want 2012 to be like 2006

<jimzondag> 13 verses

<Guest 45> speed seems very helpful

<Stogi> No poems

<Stogi> Ever

<SuperNerd256> You're the best Jim!

<Guest 27> Everyone wants AIm High 2

<pyeung45> i want an aim high game too

<Jared341> 

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<jeffrodriguez> football and parking cones!

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<Stogi> EWCP wants an aim high game + 04 + ramps

<Guest 57> How about Lunacy v2? 

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<SuperNerd256> NO

<Guest 27> Both shooting games

<thefro526> Lunacy V2 would be besy

<Guest 61> ramps ftw

<Guest 57> D:

<Guest 27> Aim High goals and Lunacy goals

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<Guest 27> in the same field

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<SuperNerd256> How about Lunacy with regolith slopes, stairs, and game pieces made of the material the wheels are made of!

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<Guest 44> ...no

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<Baselthe2nd> Maize Craze + ramps + water

<Guest 27> mad?

<pyeung45> king of the hill with regolith!!!

<Baselthe2nd> Tennis balls in a pond

<BrendanB> I go back to work at that point!

<jwfoss> 2006... with mobile goals

<Stogi> http://mort11.org/static/manual/manual.zip

<IanCurtis> King of the Hill in '03 had a slippery top too, didn't it?

<schreiaj> Yes

<Guest 57> one second, what does every game have? I think jim just said it but i missed it

<BrendanB> a challenge?

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<Jared341> 57: a simple task for rookies

<Baselthe2nd> An avenue for scoring with just a simple robot

<Guest 57> oho k thanks

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<IndySam> FIRST choice will be very important this year.

<Stogi> masking tape and sharpie kids

<michaelblake3481> MISSING PARTS... what's been the EWCP-talkers experience?

<Stogi> Usually nothing significant

<BrendanB> We didn't have 09 wheels in our kit

<IndySam> Very different this year

<Jared341> Never had anything missing

<Jared341> One year had 2x right handed window motors instead of 1x left and 1x right

<Stogi> lol

<pyeung45> always had all our parts i believe

<jeffrodriguez> Order early

<SuperNerd256> Crio is negligible. 

<jeffrodriguez> great story

<kabakowski> Ouch.

<Guest 27> don't give the cRIO to the IFI guy...

<Guest 27> conspiracy

<Stogi> ^

<Stogi> i wouldve dropped an IFI controller on it and act like nothing ever happened

<SuperNerd256> I know for 2012 you have to have your kit checked before you leave with it at the venue for the Kinect

<schreiaj> < has more CRIOS than 1114 in 09

<jeffrodriguez> cardboard and wood

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<Guest 27> But that's a very obvious white, green and purple box

<BrendanB> Supernerd they just check tha tyou have all the packages when you leave.

<jeffrodriguez> vex

<jeffrodriguez> edubot

<Guest 27> and that's FIRST/MS

<kabakowski> BrendanB: they noted somewhere that you have to open one of the boxes to ensure that you do indeed have the Kinect

<kabakowski> aside from checking to make sure you have all of the boxes

<SuperNerd256> No, I mean you have to go through a process where volunteers at the event need to go through your kit when you get it.

<kabakowski> ^

<BrendanB> okay that is different. not

<Stogi> we bought a bunch of VEX to proto with

<BrendanB> *not opening everything

<connorworley1538> lots of wooden roller claws and minibots last year

<SuperNerd256> Yeah

<Bryan33> gehto prototype.. I'm going to use that.

<Stogi> yes

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<pyeung45> in 2010 we made a frame with different holes at different heights so we could test different locations for ball rollers

<IndySam> hey I live in the ghetto!

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<IanCurtis> https://plus.google.com/photos/111510133810686324057/albums/5550596688191178561

<IanCurtis> Here's some ghetto prototypes and the robot we ultimately built.

<Guest 63> What are the thoughts on iterative design vs. prototyping time?

<Stogi> ^ can you clarify your question

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<Stogi> Guest 63 can you clarify your question please

<Guest 63> how much is it worth to get precise information using a wood prototype versus build the design, test, modify iteratively?

<tombot> bad prototypes bring you backwards.

<Stogi> if you solve rudimentary issues in your prototype you'll need to modify less later on

<connorworley1538> you want some precision but there's really not enough time in build season to get the perfect grip on a tube or something

<Stogi> its better to have iterations of a prototype sometimes

<SuperNerd256> Something we do on our team: Even prototypes need some serious thought before you start. It saves a lot of time in the long run

<Stogi> but then again a prototype for one team might be a final product for another

<IndySam> pegboard rocks!

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<IndySam> and 8020

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<Guest 63> and design please

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<grimtuesday> Please answer the other question too, and also define lock

<IndySam> Sunday night

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<SuperNerd256> Lock: A final design, no changing from that point onwards

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<grimtuesday> but what defines a 'design'?

<schreiaj> not final DESIGN final prioritization

<SuperNerd256> Oh. 

<grimtuesday> Does that mean full CAD model made, and being machined

<Guest 25> Do you find building two robots during the Build Season (one practice, one final) to be worth it?

<grimtuesday> or does it mean "We're doing an elevator and we're doing it like so"

<SuperNerd256> I hear it is. We're gonna do that this year

<schreiaj> no it means you know what you are designing towards

<Stogi> two robots = yes

<pyeung45> 233...3 tube auton 

<Stogi> worth it if you use it correctly

<grimtuesday> How do you guys decide on priorities? Is it a vote?

<connorworley1538> no voting allowed

<schreiaj> Andrew Lawrence, please let me clarify what I meant

<Guest 63> for those who vote, is it an iterative vote or do you vote all at once?

<Guest 27> Significant Changes usually come in Week 6 of 2010 0_0

<Guest 63> connor: what do you do?

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<Stogi> no votes

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<Stogi> a vote is an opinion without a reason

<SuperNerd256> ok

<connorworley1538> analyze the game

<connorworley1538> find the best way to get the most points

<Guest 63> Stogi: who decides your final goals?

<Baselthe2nd> Discussed consensus over voting any day

<Stogi> Team as a whole then narrows to team leadership

<Guest 27> You fight for the closest you get to consensus

<Guest 27> then officers and lead mentors come to the final decision

<Bryan33> Vote is a four letter word..

<Baselthe2nd> Concerns must be addressed whether or not the questioner is in leadership..

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<pyeung45> ^agreed

<Guest 19> Offense or defense what do you find more effective based on pass experience?

<pyeung45> depends on game

<SuperNerd256> @ Guest 19, Depends on the game

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<XaulZan11> I think all the ppl on the call will go offense based on their expectations and abilities

<jwfoss> good defense always works. most teams dont play good defense

<Stogi> @Supernerd please allow some of the more experienced mentors on the call answer questions

<connorworley1538> an offensive robot can always play defense!

<schreiaj> Akash was pure D last year

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<Stogi> pure d was lame

<Stogi> so boring

<SuperNerd256> @Stogi Ok, but I'm trying to answer from experience.

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<tombot> Defense can and will get you onto Einstein

<tombot> Done correctly.

<tombot> :P

<jwfoss> tom would know

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<Guest 68> examine your assumptions; often a question that "everyone" knows is dumb or stupid, is in reality neither when it exposes flaws in what "everyone" kno

<jwfoss> tom you were 195 coach in 2006 right?

<XaulZan11> When was the last purely defensive robot that make it to einstien? 148?

<tombot> Yes, Justin.

<pyeung45> In my experience, every year we have designed more for offense we seemed to do better. (Pickers not pickees)possibly causation vs correlation though

<jwfoss> hows CA?

<tombot> Warm :P

<Stogi> :P

<schreiaj> Lucky, Florida was 36 this morning.

<Stogi> have fun with the new team

<Guest 61> some offensive robots have to become purely defensive when they go to Einstein b/c of their alliance partners

<Jared341> Games are designed by a GDC who wants to see offense; it's no surprise you find success with a more offensive-based design

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<Jared341> i think the swearing rules should be relaxed when referring to banebots

<karthik> I'm with ya Jared

<Guest 63> what are your team budgets?

<Jared341> they cost me florida 

<schreiaj> I would agree but I have a hunch people would disagree.

<schreiaj> Jared come back to Florida 

<flyingcow93g> ~500$ this year

<thefro526> Karthik, you could've said 'crap'

<karthik> I wasn't sure if "crap" was allowed

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<Stogi> crap is fine

<karthik> Crap, I should have known

<IndySam> Crap?

<Meredith16> Karthik doesn't know crap???

<thefro526> Crap is allowed, lol

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<connorworley1538> oh hey it's me

<IndySam> Cow pie?

<karthik> I'm not familiar, my body only expels rose petals

<thefro526> Lolol

<IndySam> What about when Toronto plays BB?

<Stogi> < Always uses paper scouting

<karthik> 3-3 start, not bad for a rebuilding year.

<schreiaj> Karthik doesn't know crap... if you all take one thing from this chat it should be that quote 

<Guest 23> http://www.cowscout.com/

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<Stogi> yeah screw 816

<flyingcow93g> ^looooooooooool

<thefro526> Akash, go away

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<schreiaj> Stogi went away 

<Stogi> yo chill with that

<IndySam> admin

<Guest 43> come competition season, will all teams be on CowScout, or do we have to do what they're asking on there now and add that team

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<Stogi> You could post on Cowscout's facebook page possibly

<Guest 61> so to scout with cowscout during competitions, i assume you would need laptops and internet connection?

<Stogi> https://www.facebook.com/cowscout

<connorworley1538> yes

<schreiaj> 61, that is correct

<grimtuesday> Do you guys have a team working on it during the season?

<connorworley1538> yeah

<Stogi> Connor works on cowscout

<Stogi> ^ this guy right here

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<Guest 43> does CowScout have a mobile version?

<SuperNerd256> Is there a place on Cowscout where robot info can be put in?

<connorworley1538> no, nothing besides photos

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<connorworley1538> we may add robot info

<pyeung45> i like this idea

<Guest 45> Can it be used offline? Do all regionals have WiFi?

<Stogi> Robot info has the possibility of becoming inaccurate

<Stogi> because a lot of kids who scout are derp

<Stogi> and could enter incorrect info about a robot

<Guest 61> isn't wifi at competitions illegal?

<SuperNerd256> Maybe teams put in info about their own robot, and info put in by external teams must be approved by the team

<connorworley1538> field is 5ghz

<Baselthe2nd> We'll find out on Saturday if wifi is illegal..

<connorworley1538> 2.4ghz networks won't interfere

<pyeung45> maybe robot info could be contained to teams so only team x can see what team x posted

<jwfoss> mobile hot spots should be fine.

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<tombot> html5 storage bro

<schreiaj> ^

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<SuperNerd256> Let 1538 go to champs so Cowscout can be there!

<flyingcow93g> lol

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<jwfoss> what about match prediction?

<connorworley1538> simple OPR match prediction will probably be added

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<jwfoss> sounds good

<avanboekel> whats cowscout?

<michaelblake3481> MUCH simpler to emit/consume XML... NO?

<grimtuesday> Will CowScout replace The Blue Alliance?

<Guest 27> wow

<Guest 61> will there be video on cowscout? or the ability to upload video?

<schreiaj> I would prefer json over xml

<michaelblake3481> Just add an XML stub... much easier than adding API functionality...

<Guest 27> will there be free money?

<Guest 27> this sounds awesome

<connorworley1538> we currently get video from TBA

<tombot> TBA needs devs

<Guest 61> ahh ok, thank you Connor

<connorworley1538> adding video via youtube is a planned feature

<schreiaj> Tom, I'll see if I can point some of my coworkers your way.

<Guest 23> Our team will be using CowScout this year. Thank you 1538

<jwfoss> are the marra brothers mia?

<connorworley1538> if we do release an API it'll probably be JSON

<tombot> I live with Greg

<jwfoss> real life getting in the way of TBA support?

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<Guest 43> How early will we see the CowScout database and what they will be scouting for this year's competition?

<grimtuesday> Our team will be stealing features from CowScout for our database this year. Thanks!

<Guest 63> *borrowing

<Guest 43> like game-specific things such as how they score etc.

<Guest 27> mobile app?

<Guest 82> keep talking

<tombot> CowScout looks great!

<Guest 27> or mobile-browser compatible?

<connorworley1538> probably within the first week of kickoff

<tombot> Good job!

<Guest 23> can we upload CowScout on our smart phones?

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<Guest 82> *Edited*

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<karthik> Excuse me?

<Meredith16> Huh?

<connorworley1538> we'll add enough different data aspects to accurately represent a score

<IndySam> nice

<Guest 27> It looks mobile browser friendly

<schreiaj> I would like to apologize on behalf of guest 82

<SuperNerd256> 0

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<michaelblake3481> CowScout --> Emit/Consume XML?

<schreiaj> And remind anyone that posting things like that will equal me banning you

<Guest 43> I can't open CowScout on my Droid Razr

<connorworley1538> what do you mean michael?

<tombot> "I can't open CowScout on my Droid Razr" I found the problem!

<flyingcow93g> lol

<michaelblake3481> Loosely coupled app?

<schreiaj> Better than blackberry

<grimtuesday> Question about Kitbot on Steroids: Compare it's weight and drive strength to a standard west coast drive?

<schreiaj> define standard west coast drive

<Guest 27> Am I going to be that guy and ask why there is no love for Android?

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<Stogi> Why do people have a fascination with WCD?

<grimtuesday> cantilevered 6" wedgetop wheels

<Stogi> it is an optimized drive

<Guest 43> Android love right here!

<Stogi> but it doesn't need to be compared to what a team can build with a kitbot

<michaelblake3481> no need for API if I can obtain info from/place info into CS via XML...

<schreiaj> Grim, so 254 didnt build a standard wcd?

<grimtuesday> well, our team is considering going with a kit frame, even though we have more than the ability to do more

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<connorworley1538> we might allow CSV upload

<connorworley1538> for teams using excel

<jwfoss> do the Kitbot and focus on superstruture

<Guest 23> http://www.simbotics.org/media/news/2012/simphone-and-kitbot-steroids-resources-released

<grimtuesday> what did 254 do?

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<schreiaj> cantilevered ~4" wheels

<michaelblake3481> that's a good start, but, real-time bi-directional XML would EPIC...

<Guest 63> To add to grimtuesday's comment, we are thinking about trying to evaluate the benefit of designing a drive train ahead of the season.

<tombot> 254 builds the same drive train because they have done it a million times and it pays to have that experience

<Guest 63> is there a benefit to this?

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<schreiaj> Tom, my point was that the phrase "standard wcd" is tossed around a lot but it isn't defined anywhere

<Guest 63> Or might this do more harm than good due to the restrictions it applies to us.

<Stogi> The KBOS is not supposed to be an option from WCD or other drives

<flyingcow93g> it could stop a bullet.

<flyingcow93g> once.

<Stogi> its supposed to be an upgrade option for the kitbot

<Stogi> nothing more nothin less

<SuperNerd256> Where do you get the plywood, and what type? Also, can you use alligator clips instead of rivets on the wheels?

<Stogi> Plywood.....dude Home Depot

<jwfoss> use rivets

<Stogi> if you want to go fancy, buy baltic birch

<rtfgnow> Are there rules against performance enhancing drugs in FRC?

<SuperNerd256> I'm not a hardware guy

<jwfoss> the alligator clips wreck the floor

<schreiaj> rtfgnow... WHAT?

<jwfoss> i dont think they should even be legal

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<grimtuesday> I think he's implying that the 1114 app is a performance enchancing drug?

<rtfgnow> performance enhancing drug - steroids

<grimtuesday> How much better is 1114's real drive as compared to the kit

<flyingcow93g> how important is that wheel grip lining stuff. How much better is it compared to the regular kit wheels?

<Baselthe2nd> Alex/rtfgnow: We'll find out on Saturday?

<grimtuesday> and what is 1114's standard drive, for reference

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<Stogi> flyingcow- are you talking about roughtop/wedgetop tread?

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<flyingcow93g> yessir

<Stogi> higher traction, but not needed

<schreiaj> 111 has 3 CMP w/ KOP wheels

<Stogi> 111 rolls on kit wheels usually IIRC

<Stogi> yea

<avanboekel> is 1114's drive train a wcd?

<Stogi> no

<Stogi> jesus you kids and WCD

<Stogi> :P

<XaulZan11> KOP wheels on a crab drive =/= Kitbot

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<Guest 43> how important is it to make two robots for build season?

<lawrence1503> 1114 uses "Midwest drive"

<lawrence1503> Axles supported on both sides.

<Stogi> 1114 uses "Eh Drive"

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<Bryan33> Canadalanddrive

<Stogi> its pretty great

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<Stogi> Moose Drive

<tombot> that was a terrible joke

<schreiaj> Did I say kitbot? I said kit wheels

<schreiaj> Nick, where is the moose?

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<lawrence1503> Since 2007, they've used variants of 6/8 WD like this with no issues like ever.

<flyingcow93g> did you guys talk about the kinect yet? I missed most of this

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<Guest 43> does the moose fit the weight limit? lol

<lawrence1503> The moose is powering the phone and computer i'm using right now.

<Guest 19> Talk about the kinect

<schreiaj> Kinect was discussed in the beta cast

<jwfoss> nick if thats midwest... what is East Coast Drive?

<jwfoss> ahaha

<lawrence1503> Colson wheels.

<lawrence1503> :3

<jwfoss> dead axles

<Stogi> colsons

<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/13/frc-2010-control-system-beta/

<flyingcow93g> thx

<lawrence1503> Awesomedrive.

<Stogi> < starting a new team

<Stogi> will make kitbot

<Stogi> pretty simple decision

<Stogi> unless you're Aren Hill

<Stogi> :P

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<Stogi> "Hmmm kitbot....or 10 wheel swerve..." - Aren Hill

<Meredith16> 

<lawrence1503> SimSwerve is best swerve.

<Bryan33> What about games where the front of the frame needs to be open? (2009-like)

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<XaulZan11> its easy to cut the kitbot frame to have an openings

<Bryan33> I was more concerned about stiffness sense that front frame member is pretty key.

<Stogi> add in a 1x1 tube

<Stogi> tada

<Guest 43> should rename it to SimPhonI

<IndySam> When will it be available for real phones?

<flyingcow93g> in the c channel?

<Stogi> yes

<SuperNerd256> I've learned more from the textbook for success than from my actual school textbooks.

<flyingcow93g> not an iphone

<Guest 27> You made up for it by saying "sorry" the way Canadians say it

<Guest 27> eh?

<michaelblake3481> Windows Phone 7.5

<Guest 19> What on Earth is a Blackberry? 

<Guest 83> I <3 Kos assm. instructions. Thank you 1114 for putting this out!!!

<schreiaj> Tell ya what, if it is a ball game where we need openings in the frame we will bring Karthik back on to talk about it

<flyingcow93g> grows on trees. its pretty cool. try one.

<Guest 43> I love those fruits! but i thought we were talking about phones!

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<Bryan33> blackberrys and apples

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<schreiaj> http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Telephones/SouthWestern_Bell_Motorola_Brick_Cell_phone_web.jpg < Blackberry

<Guest 27> http://www.autumnacres.biz/web_images/blackberries430x300.jpg

<lawrence1503> And Ice Cream Sandwiches.

<Guest 19> I was being sarcastic

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<lawrence1503> bahahahah Andrew

<flyingcow93g> LOL

<Guest 43> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=799&authuser=0&tbm=isch&tbnid=KI3zx3SCRA3qxM:&imgrefurl=http://www.pixelandmatter.c

<schreiaj> That pic courtesy of karthik's wall 

<Guest 43> lol

<michaelblake3481> AFTER ALL, didn't Microsoft donate a couple thousand Kinects?

<Guest 61> "Karthik's Homework"

<Guest 27> FIRST hosts it on their website

<SuperNerd256> I do!

<Guest 27> /heyo

<IndySam> pedantic, good word.

<Guest 27> 4 for drive

<michaelblake3481> DID I miss the BANEBOTS discussion/warning segment?

<Guest 27> 1 for manipulator

<flyingcow93g> 6=battery power theft

<Guest 27> 1 for fun

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<Guest 83> when will the recording be up?

<Meredith16> Useless design constraints. There's a discussion topic...

<schreiaj> 83, pretty much as soon as I hit to stop recording

<grimtuesday> I've decided there is a useless element to every year

<tombot> OH GOD

<Guest 83> ok cool and i can just find it on the EWCP site?

<tombot> 775s

<schreiaj> fastest way of getting casts is to subscribe in itunes

<Guest 58> You guys should put an RSS link to the talkshoe casts on your website. No iTunes on my android... http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss98466.xml

<tombot> the.... bane.. of my existence

<Baselthe2nd> "Let's use 15 motors" roughly equals "Let's direct drive CIMs," I think.

<Guest 27> Shoot in all the goals

<flyingcow93g> your bot will last half the match

<SuperNerd256> YES!

<Guest 27> 4 batteries

<Stogi> If you only direct drive with CIMs you're probably dumb

<Guest 19> Jet pack FTW

<flyingcow93g> bam

<Guest 27> let's just play with abrams tanks

<schreiaj> 58, I try to make a post for each cast on the site

<Guest 27> it's been decided

<flyingcow93g> hey, Im proud of our deadly direct drivin kicker.

<pyeung45> I agree. Why limit motors? They already limit cost and size.

<schreiaj> It allows us some flexibility should we want to post some links or descriptions

<grimtuesday> De-regulation may make better robots

<Guest 58> yea, but I can't subscribe to your sites RSS for the casts

<Guest 27> Trickle-Down Robotics

<Guest 19> 4019s robot is going to blast death metal

<schreiaj> You can subscrbe to all posts

<grimtuesday> but if you have no regulations, it becomes a race of who can spend the most money for the best components etc...

<Guest 27> probably against the rules

<Guest 58> didnt work in google Listen on my phone...

<Guest 27> the blasting

<Guest 83> PLEASE NO BANE BOTS

<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/atom.xml

<michaelblake3481> Has there ever been a limit on how many pneumatic pistons?

<IndySam> CYLINDERS!

<Guest 63> does this increase the gap between rookie teams and vet. teams?

<flyingcow93g> whats that xml for/

<grimtuesday> great cast, very informative

<SuperNerd256> YES! 

<schreiaj> that is our RSS feed for our website

<Guest 58> for whatever reason the mp3s don't get picked out of the site rss the talkshow rss works fine

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<schreiaj> there ya go then :P

<karthik> http://robotevents.com/volunteer/

<flyingcow93g> its ok, we believe in you

<karthik> http://www.simbotics.org/media/news/2012/simphone-and-kitbot-steroids-resources-released

<Guest 19> 

<schreiaj> Karthik, if you want to PM me those links I'll toss them in the cast post on our page

<michaelblake3481> XML = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML

<schreiaj> ... or I could just grep for http://

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<flyingcow93g> no, asked what it was for. that specific one.

<flyingcow93g> lol

<lawrence1503> oh my god this is best

<jwfoss> wow

<flyingcow93g> as dean talks forever

<Guest 58> +1

<thefro526> This is most awesome

<Stogi> this is best

<lawrence1503> Can I get this in writing?

<Guest 83> yes...

<pyeung45> #winning

<flyingcow93g> I think its on CD somewhere

<Guest 27> put it in the CD thread?

<flyingcow93g> or something similar

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<schreiaj> This will be in the CD thread

<karthik> Just emailed you Andrew

<Stogi> this is a new one by Jim

<schreiaj> Thanks Karthik

<jwfoss> best pre-kickoff cast ever

<Stogi> note to all teams from EWCP- please help each other out

<Stogi> that's why we do this

<flyingcow93g> LOL thats what I say every year.

<pyeung45> I would die if this was all made up on the spot

<ajones16> Nice job!

<flyingcow93g> clap

<IndySam> ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()

<flyingcow93g> clap

<flyingcow93g> clap

<Guest 58> ::clap::

<grimtuesday> clap clap clap

<Bryan33> Awesome!

<Guest 61> snaps

<kabakowski> That was beautiful.

<Baselthe2nd> Epic

<Meredith16> Coffee house snapping

<SuperNerd256> That made up for the lack of 2nd (official) game hint! THANK YOU! Loved it!

<pyeung45> encore

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<Guest 19> Looking forward to my rookie season Team 4019 FTW

<flyingcow93g> put it on a CD. audio.

<Bryan33> Quite the poet

<grimtuesday> Can I post this on our teams facebook tomorow?

<flyingcow93g> jam to that in my car

<SuperNerd256> Please post it!

<zFoss> /clap

<grimtuesday> please type it and put it on the thread

<kabakowski> i'd download audio of that.

<SuperNerd256> I'd download that.

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<Guest 43> welcome to the first family 4019

<flyingcow93g> anddddd cutoff

Chat Transcript

Download : http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-98466/TS-577816.mp3

Also, we have a twitter account, follow us at @ewcpcast

Code:

<schreiaj> Oh, and you guys are enjoying the casts, please like us on FB and leave a comment with your team number(s) We'd love to know who you are!

<Guest 6> Call starts at nine correct?

<schreiaj> https://www.facebook.com/pages/EWCPcast-presented-by-The-East-West-Collaboration-Project/110990662319846

<schreiaj> That is correct 6

<Guest 6> Thanks, I need to get an account lol.

<schreiaj> I'm technically waiting for Dustin too.

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<rtfgnow> I can hear

<schreiaj> If you can't hear me talking a second ago you need to make sure you can.

<JacobP79> I heard

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<Guest 5> heard

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<Guest 3> Yessir

<JacobP79> Duh

<smitsmcgee> Much better.

<Guest 8> looks like none :P

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<smitsmcgee> Or just no rookies

<JacobP79> 6 years

<Guest 7> 5 years

<smitsmcgee> This is my first EWCP cast, does that count?

<rtfgnow> #5 on 79

<smitsmcgee> 4th year, senior on team 1507

<Guest 3> Team 1676, junior, team co-leader

<JacobP79> 4 on 79 and the last 2 on 2059

<Guest 7> are you happy with no minibots

<Leeland1126> 1126, 4 years. This is my fifth game. Just graduated.

<Guest 4> 5th year- Team 1884

<Guest 2> 7 years, 1714

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<smitsmcgee> Hiya 1126, I know you guys.

<rtfgnow> who enjoyed Dean's speech on kick-off

<Guest 3> I enjoyed sleeping during it...

<Guest 2> 2006

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<Guest 5> Was with 781 for 4 years. Now in first year uni.

<Guest 2> i was in 8th grade team member

<Guest 10> 2 years

<Leeland1126> 1507! Very nice, Smits!

<smitsmcgee> It's nice to see some numbers I recognize from local competitions lol

<Leeland1126> Haha definitely!

<Guest 7> ramp

<Guest 10> I'd guess ramps will win most qualifiers

<Guest 3> The points from scoring balls will probably equal the points due to the ramp

<JacobP79> ramp in elims

<smitsmcgee> Ramp at early comps, balls as competition gets better (champs)

<Guest 5> ramp

<Guest 3> The 3 robots per ramp in eliminations will be key

<Guest 2> coop ramp will be huge

<Guest 5> agree with smits

<Guest 4> depends on # of robots on ramp

<Guest 10> At the higher level the three areas (auto, tele, ramp) should be more balanced

<Leeland1126> Still undecided... 

<Guest 4> Auto is vital

<smitsmcgee> It'll be like last year how minibots could win week 1/2 regionals alone, but at champs tubes were just as important.

<Leeland1126> I'm leaning towards ramps, then

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<Guest 4> Average Score guess

<JacobP79> The limited amount of balls helps the ramps be more valuable

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<smitsmcgee> Weeks 1 and 2, ramps will win. Average score will be less than 20.

<Guest 2> do you happen to have the average balls scored per team from aim high?

<Guest 4> 30-50

<Guest 9> guessing 20

<JacobP79> 40

<Guest 7> 20 with a ramp

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<Guest 3> Average score....20. Highest = 50

<Guest 3> *In week 1

<Guest 9> actually i take it back 10-20 average

<smitsmcgee> 20. Plenty of rookies, plenty of teams who haven't made a robot to shoot a ball in a long time.

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<rtfgnow> I'd say 30 +- 10 in Elims

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<smitsmcgee> As a team with a pretty successful power dumper in Lunacy, I can't apply much from that year for this.

<smitsmcgee> I believe the correct term is Barrier?

<Guest 2> not yet

<Guest 7> we put a person over the ramp does that count

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<Guest 3> ^same

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<Guest 15> Hey Leeland! Starke here!

<Guest 9> thanks for the tip

<JacobP79> good point, most people focus on 2006 and 2001

<Leeland1126> Hey Starke!

<pyeung45> That's me

<Guest 3> 2004 had a similar barrier?

<Guest 15> I wish talk shoe let us change our guest names.........

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<smitsmcgee> I made an account like 3 minutes ago, it's not difficult.

<Guest 2> check out wildstang from 04, awesome way to get on that step

<Guest 3> Ah, okay, thanks a lot.

<grimtuesday> so, any chokehold strategies anyone?

<Guest 15> 340 was a good one too

<Guest 15> from 2004

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<Guest 3> Thanks

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<Guest 4> Sim swerve was epic

<Guest 9> idk if it just me but i find this game really boring

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<Guest 15> 340 2004: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/17076

<Guest 17> there'll be hidden depth 9

<Guest 4> calling from london is expensive

<schreiaj> fair enough

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<Guest 15> FRC Designs - Check it out! http://www.frc-designs.com/

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<rtfgnow> Hour Florida driving or hour Michigan driving?

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<JacobP79> Andrew where do you live?

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<JacobP79> I think there is a new team at a boys and girls club near there

<stevend223> psssh how about hour jersey driving?

<GCentola1126> the basketballs are really fun to play with 

<smitsmcgee> And inconsistent!

<GCentola1126> well...that too

<Guest 15> They make good dodgeballs........

<GCentola1126> yeah!

<pyeung45> don't care for them

<stevend223> we lost one of our basketballs immediately for a good hour or so after we got to our shop

<Guest 19> Yeah, small hopper is a Good Thing.

<grimtuesday> hopper bot

<Guest 9> this year the rules are simple

<grimtuesday> accepts balls from teammates

<stevend223> small hopper is helpful, you just doont need a large one

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<stevend223> the simulation is all lunacy inspired bots

<grimtuesday> this year the rules are ambigous

<stevend223> the simulator is good for getting a feel of the game

<Guest 15> yay for increased level of competition!!!!!!!!!

<Guest 17> Yay for most teams being able to do endgame

<smitsmcgee> Being able to move would be a good start.

<grimtuesday> I disagree with that; because your scoring is not defined by goals this year they are defined by balls.

<Guest 7> no minibot!!!!!

<grimtuesday> Balls are the limiting factor

<Guest 19> Silly question: When do you know OPR's relevant?

<stevend223> technically isnt the ramp not endgame? you can do it whenever you want during the match, right?

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<grimtuesday> if an opponent scores the ball anywhere but the top rack and you score in the top rack

<smitsmcgee> Yes, but you get the points when the match ends.

<GCentola1126> yeah, technically

<grimtuesday> you have a net gain

<stevend223> i view the endgame as the last 30 seconds and being able to throw over the alliance wall

<Guest 21> did this just start?

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<schreiaj> hasnt started recording yet

<stevend223> though i still see the bridge as an endgame

<schreiaj> we're just talking

<Guest 21> ok

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<Leeland1126> Shorter robots will be better for ramps, I'd think.

<pyeung45> i'm nervous of a tipping widebased

<lawrence1503> Howdy Mr. Yeckley

<smitsmcgee> Just keep the CoG reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally low

<Guest 2> wildstang was widebased on 06

<Guest 2> idk their drive though

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<Guest 19> MOE had a wheelie bar.

<Guest 2> yeah, their bumper extended

<schreiaj> we're trying to get Gabe in still.

<Guest 2> to go up the ramp

<Guest 15> 340 had a wheelie bar

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<Guest 19> And IRI.

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<pyeung45> bridges seem important

<Guest 19> Truth. Come prepared not to flip.

<Leeland1126> 1126 will probably have a severe fear of tipping over -_-

<smitsmcgee> Hey Nick

<grimtuesday> hey leeland

<GCentola1126> D:

<grimtuesday> and garrick

<Leeland1126> Hey Simon!

<GCentola1126> Hey Simon!

<SuperNerd256> Going over the bump seems important for strong scorers going back and forth, really fast

<Guest 21> Im predicting Car Nack will predict a match where 3 robots are on a bridge will only happen a handfull of times EVER.

<Cyberphil> What if one robot feeds balls from opposite side?

<GCentola1126> 1126+ramps = tip. And the ramp moves this year 

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<Guest 19> Greg Needel called under 50 times this season.

<GCentola1126> I think it might happen more frequently come the better elimination matches

<lawrence1503> smitsmgee, what team?

<schreiaj> ^ yup, I was chatting with him last night about that

<Hallry1676> When does 'Car Nack' first predict?

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<GCentola1126> We may all end up building smaller robots

<smitsmcgee> 1507. it's Brian

<Guest 21> Exactly

<lawrence1503> oh hey

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<stevend223> probably between stop build day and week 1

<pyeung45> how about a 111 bot from 2001 (carries robot on its top)

<Leeland1126> I'd agree with that. Mostly in elims. But a lot of times, alliances are probablly gonna be shooting for that coopertition bridge.

<Guest 19> One can not predict when Car Nack will speak.

<Guest 21> I could be Car Nack

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<Guest 21> 

<GCentola1126> I think Einstein alliances will have 3 robots balancing

<smitsmcgee> The way that rule is written it

<grimtuesday> agreed with this

<smitsmcgee> it's gonna be hard to play defense at all

<grimtuesday> defense is impossible given current rules

<Guest 21> I think that is likely one of the few times it will happen

<stevend223> but the question there is how do you judge 50 percent from a ref's POV?

<grimtuesday> also, if in key and alley, robots can touch and both team get fouls?

<GCentola1126> defense is tricky. not impossible

<smitsmcgee> Defense will be touchy at best

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<GCentola1126> and Simon, i think it depends on who initiates the contact

<Leeland1126> Defense is going to be hoarding as many balls as possible.

<Guest 19> Citation needed.

<Guest 21> Hoarding is illegal

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<Guest 21> if you posses 3 balls

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<Leeland1126> Like, having as many in your alliance's area as possible.

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<Guest 20> 1126- G28 is the only rule G44 does not apply to

<smitsmcgee> Is it illegal to push all the balls into your lane and just camp there?

<GCentola1126> yes.

<GCentola1126> but it doesnt apply to g25

<grimtuesday> smitsmcgee, if you cooperate with another robot to do it, that's blocking the flow

<LeviBackgammon> 20 - Speaking of that exception, what's the impact?

<GCentola1126> so what ahppens if a blue robot gets slammed into a red bridge by a red robot?

<Guest 28> which robot is counted in the hoarding rules?

<rtfgnow> He wasn't yell about no swerve, so no.

<Guest 21> I see designs that implement a gatherer that can ALSO put down the ramp being common

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<stevend223> i know someone with the exact same name as you-gabe salas lol

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<pyeung45> no!!!!!!

<Guest 21> no karth?

The recording has started.

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<schreiaj> No Karthik

<jwfoss> not tonight

<Guest 29> No Karthik? 

<schreiaj> We;ll get him on sometime again in the future

<Guest 21> Yikes

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<Guest 21> ok

<Guest 17> Cast begins here for those reading transcript

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<Guest 17> _______________

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<GCentola1126> i like it

<pyeung45> like shooting dislike game a bit though

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<rtfgnow> I'm not a fan of the name

<stevend223> not a fan of the name lol

<smitsmcgee> They could've thought of a better name.

<Guest 21> not a fan of the name

<smitsmcgee> lol

<Guest 28> I like, but think rookies will have major issues

<pyeung45> name=lame

<Guest 21> or the build-up

<Guest 29> But imagine the MCs taking advantage of that name

<Guest 28> and yeah dislike name

<GCentola1126> definitely

<Guest 21> hints were USELESS

<stevend223> needs to relate more to basketball IMO

<Cyberphil> Yes, balls in basket=hard!

<DrTheta> I think it's an appropriate name, I see a lot of rebounds occurring

<GCentola1126> the player stations are separated 

<Guest 29> What was with the showing all the game pieces from the previous years?

<smitsmcgee> Coaches will need to communicate without getting in the way of the inbounders.

<GCentola1126> i think that will be fun for communication when one alliance partner is isolated

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<GCentola1126> 

<grimtuesday> train our coaches on treadmills

<Guest 28> would wired headsets between coaches be theoretically possible?

<schreiaj> check the rules 28

<stevend223> psssh i run the box as an operator

<Guest 21> i think wireless com is illegal

<stevend223> wireless is, wired might not be

<Guest 28> wired, not wireless

<stevend223> but it might not be logistically worth it

<grimtuesday> wired coms, though

<smitsmcgee> The small one is 44", don't know how big the normal ones are.

<Guest 21> Whats the distortion of view with those hoops?? they look obnoxious

<pyeung45> cups and string?

<Cyberphil> Yes, definitely blind spot!

<stevend223> 48 i believe

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<GCentola1126> what about a 469?

<Guest 21> Thats what this game should be called. "blind spot"

<stevend223> what did he say about the wall, it was a little muffled on my end

<smitsmcgee> Most teams will probably bounce balls as far as possible, just like throwing tubes last year.

<Cyberphil> how to call in?

<SuperNerd256> PHIL! PHIL! PHIL! PHIL!

<schreiaj> +1 724 444-7444 98466#

<Cyberphil> Got it!

<grimtuesday> can students call in or do you only want mentors?

<schreiaj> students are fine

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<schreiaj> Heck, Nick is a student

<thefro526> No profanity and you're in.

<thefro526> Also, Nick is Canadian

<schreiaj> and no derping

<Guest 17> Can anyone comment on this year's ramps vs. 2001?

<GCentola1126> ugh

<jwfoss> smaller, more stable

<Guest 5> Yay Canada. That is all

<Guest 21> agreeeee

<Guest 19> But winning and balancing counts double.

<Guest 4> hoops cost $80 in the UK

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<stevend223> bridge is worth twice as much as a win i belive

<Guest 28> at least coopertition means something this year though

<DrTheta> Agree

<JacobP79> just the middle bridge

<GCentola1126> but if both alliances get on the bridge but dont balance, you eaach get 1 coop point

<schreiaj> middle bridge is 2

<schreiaj> win is 2

<smitsmcgee> It should have been a tiebreaker.

<Guest 17> Do they drift towards the center or stay on one side once down?

<stevend223> my apologies

<DrTheta> I like the rest of the ranking structure though

<stevend223> its the same

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<LeviBackgammon> 1 for unbalanced but occupied mid.

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<LeviBackgammon> 17 - they return to center.

<pyeung45> sounds like some FLL games

<Guest 37> Is it possible to get 1 coop point or will teams roll down the bridge and touch the ground every time?

<LeviBackgammon> We had a long chat on that, wish the manual just said.

<DrTheta> Autonomous scoring for secondary ranking trait

<GCentola1126> especially because some teams may have no idea what they are doing

rtfgnow is on the call

<stevend223> i believe you get one coop point just by being on the ramp along

<Guest 21> The ramps in general are an iffy element so far. No one seems to be able to accurately predict how they will pan out

<LeviBackgammon> 37 - 1 co-op for unbalanced, but occupied ramp.

<grimtuesday> sure, I'll call in

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<Guest 19> Not even the GDC.

<Guest 17> Auto can be worth as much as a bridge.\

<stevend223> ah i see

<Guest 37> but to be occupied, both robots need to be supported by ramp. but if one team rolls down and touches they ground, I dont think they are supported

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<LeviBackgammon> Is that what the rule is?

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<stevend223> yeah, its a blue box under the rule that defines ramp scoring

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<Guest 28> 37 is right

<Guest 17> What would you rather have, a change right before Week 7 or advance warning?

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<Guest 21> cyber, youre muted

<Guest 19> End of Regionals, I bet.

<Guest 21> just fyi

<stevend223> i like the fact that you get more points for 3 balancing during elims

<GCentola1126> so is going to the coop ramp early as a "hey. we are willing" gesture a good idea?

S Cent. New York is on the call

<schreiaj> Saturday at ~3, change only applies to Einstein

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<LeviBackgammon> I think that would be something you'd work out before the game started with the other alliance.

<LeviBackgammon> Like, bargaining.

<stevend223> @GCentola, yeah definitely, some thing like that needs to be devised

<LeviBackgammon> Metagame theory!

<Guest 17> They deliberately want 2 robots on each alliance and 1 of eachin coop

<schreiaj> S Cent NY, I think you had noise in the BG

<Guest 21> true

<Guest 21> thats a pain

<smitsmcgee> The fact that your opponents can control all but 3 balls is....interesting.

<grimtuesday> any noise still?

<Guest 19> Except you could hoard then--not now.

<schreiaj> no

<Guest 2> i thought 120

<Guest 17> I'm iffy on the hoard rules

<GCentola1126> in theory, couldnt you steal balls from the opposing alley if it is clear?

<Guest 28> smits - but if they score one, then the Inbounders have to kinda juggle to get one in play

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<smitsmcgee> Yeah, but even with some leeway they can pretty easily make it so you're only playing with 4 balls at a time.

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<Guest 21> cyber is the strong silent type 

<schreiaj> Cyber is gonna get his chance 

<Cyberphil> You know it

<Guest 21> That beam is going to be crossed

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<Guest 17> I'm concerned that many teams will set up as "feeders" and there will be a dearth of actual shooters

<Guest 21> ALOT

<stevend223> it WILL be crossed, and the teams that cross it have a huge legup/advantage

<smitsmcgee> I think there will be a lot of defense preventing teams from getting to the ramp at the end, much like preventing teams from getting to the poles.

<GCentola1126> Hi simon 

<SuperNerd256> Hello Tuesday!

<Guest 21> simonnnnn

<GCentola1126> WELCOME TO EWCP

<LeviBackgammon> Oh sup.

<smitsmcgee> Hey, that's another Rochester area team! Yay for WNY.

<schreiaj> *EWCPcast

<GCentola1126> i beat supernerd 

<schreiaj> EWCP is TECHNICALLY different

<GCentola1126> dang

<GCentola1126> i was close

<Hallry1676> So basically have a large net, which leads it into a completely accurately shooter?

<Guest 29> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10982151/Trolol.bmp

<stevend223> i get it

<Hallry1676> That shoots into the top hoop?

<LeviBackgammon> Simon, you're talking about the launcher zeroed into a specific robot location/facing?

<Guest 37> still need partners that can shoot balls

<smitsmcgee> So other robots feed your robot.

<Guest 17> That won't get 5 in the end game, no way

<stevend223> but does that may break your 14 inches

<LeviBackgammon> Yeah, Hallry.

<Hallry1676> Okay

<LeviBackgammon> Like 2009 - one of the teams.

<Guest 29> The dl link shows Simon's idea

<LeviBackgammon> Basically, drive to a specific spot, and from there you have 100% accuracy.

<stevend223> there's about 3.25 inches that you CAN'T reach to the hoop

<LeviBackgammon> You don't need to reach the hoop/.

<LeviBackgammon> A calibrated launcher would be fine.

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<LeviBackgammon> Also, speaking of distance from hoop...

<Guest 17> What are your thoughts on a robot to stack another on top of it to make the 40 elim points happen

<LeviBackgammon> 38.5in fender, 18in diam. hoop 6 in from the wall, 14in envelope for the robot.

<Guest 21> i already said

<LeviBackgammon> What's that work out to...?

<Guest 21> its only gonna happen a hand full of times

<Guest 29> XD

<stevend223> i was thinking about that

<stevend223> sometimes, taking the penalty MIGHT be worth it

<Guest 19> Yeah, hadn't thought of that....

<Guest 39> A minimal drive train, two powered wheels, two coasters

<Guest 21> Camping will not be that great

<Guest 37> I think several teams will be able to make 80% shots from the key

<Guest 17> We have a scaled prototype of stack bot

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<Guest 21> not many robots wil be passerrs

<Hallry1676> Is anyone thinking of sitting in the key and shooting accurately, but having a drive train to move around and get balls?

<Guest 17> that another robot could climb on

<Guest 19> Doesn't R01 effectively require mobility? http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/57#4.1.1

<Guest 39> I agree with 19

<Guest 29> Not in the spirit of FIRST...

<Guest 29> 

<GCentola1126> but playing a cleaner game comes in handy later

<Guest 21> That is not proffesional

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<Guest 21> AT ALL

<LeviBackgammon> I think that's smart play, too.

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<Hallry1676> Definitely

<Guest 21> Tipping a bot over?

<LeviBackgammon> No.

<Guest 19> Yeah, smart play to bump there.

<Guest 21> to move them, sure thats fine

<LeviBackgammon> Taking the penalty for moving an opposing robot by contacting it in key.

<Guest 21> ok thats fine

<Guest 21> i see that as ok

<stevend223> this way stats could show higher scores

<stevend223> in comparison to say, breakaway

<Guest 21> but purposely TIPPING them, not cool

<Guest 29> hahaha

<smitsmcgee> Higher average scores definitely.

<Guest 29> YES AGREED

<Guest 29> No GLOSSARY!

<LeviBackgammon> Prevent neg. scores, too

<Guest 39> no gollsery -> sad

<stevend223> they tried to simplify the manual, and yeah, they need a glossary

<LeviBackgammon> Manual is irritating

<Guest 37> if a team builds a top heavy robot and you try to tip them by not breakiing any rules, I don't have a problem with it

<Guest 19> Can someone say where the bumper zone is defined this year?

<Guest 21> I <3 manual

<Guest 29> I prefered the rules when they were twice as thick

<smitsmcgee> Hahaha Manual Part 2.

<LeviBackgammon> We wasted ~1/2 hour discussing whether the bridge returned to center

<schreiaj> Not sure I agree, if the penalty is 3pts and it nets me 10 pts? That's a failure in the game

<stevend223> 2-10 inches bumper zone

<LeviBackgammon> And it would be nice if it just said.

<Guest 39> manual simplified? this is so much more difficult to understand.

<Guest 21> Its simple

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<stevend223> yes it has

<Guest 21> 18

<stevend223> becuase it says "bridge" not "alliance bridge" or "coopertition bridge"

<LeviBackgammon> "simple"

<Guest 29> 2 for each robot, 2 on each bridge

<Leeland1126> 6 on the ramps, 2 for each robot. That's all that is said, I believe.

<GCentola1126> I think we know when an allaince gets a point for scoring, but the actual rule for that is ambiguous

<Guest 28> simulator says 18 as well, I'm guessing FIRST would have checked that

<Hallry1676> yes, 18. 2 for each of the 6 robots, plus 2 for each of the three ramps

<LeviBackgammon> I think it says 16 if you count them up.

<Guest 21> agree

<LeviBackgammon> *18

<Guest 29> Agreed

<stevend223> ugggggh the peg heights last year

<Hallry1676> haha, yeah steven

<Guest 29> :P So true

<LeviBackgammon> Yes, that's irritating.

<Guest 21> But it should be clarified

<LeviBackgammon> Manual really should say.

<Guest 26> I DONT WANT TO DO MATH =D

<Hallry1676> *and then mess them up in the team drawings =P

<Guest 21> I find the animation disheartening

<LeviBackgammon> Sorry, tangent, how close can we get to the hoop?

<stevend223> the arena section works this year

<smitsmcgee> The stuff that's in the Manual is good, but the things that are missing are blatant.

<Guest 21> it doesnt say the points for the ramp, it says the co-op points only.

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<Hallry1676> 3/4ths of an inch away i believe to the bottom hoop?

<GCentola1126> It might slow it down

<Guest 19> You could control them all--the alley.

<Hallry1676> Well, an entire alliance can have 15 balls

<Guest 29> And ally

<LeviBackgammon> 38.5in fender - (6 in hoop->wall + 14 in bot reach + 18in hoop diameter)?

<GCentola1126> so one robot couldnt hold 18

<smitsmcgee> Could you wedge the balls in the corner of your lane and protect them?

<Guest 39> Where on the field will there be congestion or will there be? My guess is bridges at lower-grade regionals will be a bigger problem.

<LeviBackgammon> So that works out to half an inch to the edge of the hoop?

<Guest 37> plus then you could push balls into your key or ally and completely starve the other alliance

<Guest 21> To make it different from aim high

<Hallry1676> Guest 29, a robot CAN go into the other alliance's robot to get their balls

<Leeland1126> So you don't build a robot that has a 18 ball capacity. They're scaling down 2006 scoring.

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<Hallry1676> *Guest 29, a robot CAN go into the other alliance's LANE to get their balls

<smitsmcgee> But if there's a robot "protecting" the balls in your lane, they risk a penalty to get them.

<JacobP79> New challenge

<Guest 17> Guys, I may have found the equivalent of the dual-hang this year in autonomous. Teams with no autonomous will give their balls to the center (ctd.)

<GCentola1126> holding 3 also make it easier to retain them without jamming

<LeviBackgammon> Speaking of congestion, we can drive over the divider, right?

<Guest 21> True

<Guest 37> Hallry, but you can then touch them while they are in your alley and get 3 pts

<Guest 21> they will anyway

<Guest 29> Of course, Levi

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<Hallry1676> Guest 37, that's if you touch their robot, not their ballsd

<Guest 29> And Mike it's called the barrier

<Guest 17> bridge, then a pro shooting robot will tip the bridge and give them all the balls. They can shoot them for lots of points

<pyeung45> coopertition scores seem like it could be too much

<smitsmcgee> It's worth too much. If anything, 1 point. But it should be a tiebreaker.

<Guest 21> hahaha

<LeviBackgammon> 29, who are you?

<Guest 19> Work the pay plan. Balance each match.

<Guest 21> well robots that can balance well ARE good

<Guest 21> to be honest

<Guest 21> in this game

<LeviBackgammon> They'll be picked most

<Guest 21> exactly

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<pyeung45> it makes it very strategic

<Hallry1676> Like minibots...

<LeviBackgammon> We had this silly idea.

<Guest 21> people will want to try for the 40

<smitsmcgee> Upset city.

<stevend223> i understand wanting to push the coopertition score as important, but this year itsbroken

<GCentola1126> I'm glad they at least kept the seeding from last year

<Guest 21> it is

<GCentola1126> just added to it 

<LeviBackgammon> Robot with 50lbs. weight and automatic gyroscope that entirely took over duty of balancing.

<Leeland1126> It's another challenge to overcome. If a team that REALLY wants the number one spot isn't willing to go the extra mile to get the coopertition points

<Leeland1126> Do they really deserve it?

<LeviBackgammon> And even if it did nothing else it would still probably do excellent in seeding.

<stevend223> thats an interesting viewpoint of it, "everyone's fight"

<Guest 21> no

<Guest 39> the shift of scoring during after seeding - how will this upset the advantage of such a #1 robot?

<pyeung45> we discussed it for like an hour

<smitsmcgee> With 30 seconds left, teams should be lining up at the cooperatition ramp.

<Guest 19> Here's the thing though--balance AND win.

<DrTheta> Ranking rules would have been much cleaner without coopertition points adding to qualification points

<LeviBackgammon> It would have been boring.

<Guest 21> Rank will be unimportant, "bad" teams will try hard for co-op and pick good teams (scorers).

<LeviBackgammon> Now we have a metagame.

<stevend223> a lot didn't like it in 2010 IIRC, but now it looks so better than this year

<smitsmcgee> 1st should be only win-loss. Ever.

<DrTheta> agreed

<Guest 28> agree

<stevend223> this is counter-intuitive to the "FIRST=Sport"

<Guest 21> agree

<Guest 46> do coopertition points count for a single bot, or for the whole alliance?

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<Guest 21> whole alliance.

<LeviBackgammon> Whole alliance recievesthem.

<Guest 46> thanks

<Guest 17> No reason not to try for the ramp this year, at least for the 1 pt

<Guest 21> Ughhhhhh they need to lose this bridge deal

<LeviBackgammon> If you're ahead of your opponent, and you're winning, do you want to balance the bridge.

<stevend223> 17, but then the ramp is worth 10-20 points to jump ahead

<Guest 19> If you're ahead by two and you're winning, balancing makes no difference--the delta is still two for the win.

<LeviBackgammon> Yeah, what they just said.

<Guest 46> true, but how will the HDPE on the bridge affect teams with slicker wheels like mecanums?

<Guest 37> will we see opponent alliances talk before matches?

<Guest 46> i thin opponents will strategize, at least the smart ones.

<schreiaj> It is polycarb

<Guest 17> 19, the delta vs all 54 other robots in the regional is 2 or 4.

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<Guest 17> it's important

<stevend223> 37, definitely, at least in week 1, maybe later other things will be discovered

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<pyeung45> it may benefit you to not get the coopertition ramp but what about your partners?

<LeviBackgammon> It might come down to "Well, screw them"

<smitsmcgee> If they're going to win, you basically hold their other 2 points in your hands.

<DrTheta> Can't this system lead to collusion>

<DrTheta> ?

<Guest 21> yes

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<LeviBackgammon> Ties are never going to happen

<Guest 21> to smits

<Guest 46> "coopertition", not collusion

<Guest 17> agree with pyeung45, you may be a powerhouse, a rookie, anywhere in between, but your partners may not have your same record

<jwfoss> DrTheta. Yes.

<smitsmcgee> That

<smitsmcgee> That's bad.

<Guest 19> Balancing helps everyone on the field here. The win/loss delta remains constant.

<Guest 13> Are teams more likely to put an adult in as coach to negotiate with opponents on the coopertition bridge?

<Guest 28> 17: but unfortunately, the lower one may defer to the powerhouse

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<stevend223> that works more than what we have this year; not ideal, but better

<Guest 21> i dislike the co-opertition

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<Guest 37> 13, I think the teams that plan to talk to opponents already have adults as field coach

<Hallry1676> Lost audio...

<Guest 37> correlation, not causeation

<LeviBackgammon> Cooperation vs. collaboration vs. collusion, which would coopertition fall into?

<pyeung45> it would seem that if no.1,25, and 47 vs 2, 20, and 30. 1 wouldn't want to do the middle bridge at all unless they knew they could win but 25 and 47m

<Guest 21> whats collusion?

<pyeung45> *may

<Guest 17> esqejgyjkfbjlwfbjklhbjvlhdqgwjkhvgrwdebjkhvgdebjmn,vbjn,fejfebjmnefqbjmnfrfjhebj2hejknhe hacked

<LeviBackgammon> Negative cooperation, basically.

<LeviBackgammon> Colluding with the enemy

<Guest 21> yikes

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<Guest 19> 2001.

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<Guest 19> Because there were like five alliance members.

<DrTheta> I'm not talking about collusion in match between opponents

<GCentola1126> There was a 39-0 match on Curie in 2010

<pyeung45> no wedge bots

<Guest 29> But you can push!

<LeviBackgammon> wat

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<LeviBackgammon> Can't entangle the field

<Guest 29> Pushing is not disallowed (sorry for double negative)

<Guest 34> Wait

<Guest 21> balancing two robots will be easy, i have felt the ramps firsthand 

<LeviBackgammon> You can interfere with it while not on the ramp, yeah

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<Guest 34> You cannot use balls to wedge under bridges

<Guest 28> just for the coop bridge

<Guest 29> We found it somewhere yesterday

<DrTheta> It is entirely possible for a team within a match now to adversely affect the ranking score of an opponent for the benefit of a team not in the match

<Guest 29> "Fully supported"

<Guest 2> it says fully supported for the coop ramp

<Guest 28> that's the only one with the fully supported rule

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<DrTheta> That was what I mean by collusion

<Pastor Eli James> VancouverWaTi.com is a Nimbuster PERP!! He made a full confession!

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<LeviBackgammon> As in, no upward force is applied to the robot from anywhere not on the bridge?

<Guest 28> [G41] is what they're thinking of

<schreiaj> For those, don't go to that link

<JacobP79> There is

<Hallry1676> Yes there is

<LeviBackgammon> Why is this not an IRC channel

<LeviBackgammon> /mode +b

<stevend223> but will plywood ramp simulate polycarb well?

<LeviBackgammon> /kick

<Guest 28> steve - not a chance 

<JacobP79> We had some in NC and they looked pretty strong

<Hallry1676> It has sides though, doesn't it?

<Guest 21> they hard hard to push

<Guest 21> hard to alter

<Guest 21> so they will balance easy

<schreiaj> Levi, basically I can mute people

<pyeung45> is it feesible to fit 3 wide ones?

<LeviBackgammon> k

<Guest 21> yes

<schreiaj> but since the spammer last time was aguest I can't do crap to him

<Guest 21> exactly

<LeviBackgammon> Guy who saw the field, how strongly does the ramp return to center?

W Washington state is on the call

<Guest 19> That's promising.

<LeviBackgammon> Very?

<Guest 21> Very strongly.

<Guest 21> you have to keep force

<Guest 2> 2 batteries are only ~26 lbs

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<LeviBackgammon> Well, 20lbs is a considerable portion of a robot's weights for balance purposes

<Guest 21> think if they were side by side

<Guest 21> 2 long thin robots can act as one long robo

<Guest 21> and robots can stack onto eachother

<LeviBackgammon> Having 3 robots would be awful.

<Guest 2> full robot is around 140 lbs, at max weight

<Guest 29> VERY informative about bridges: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AMaqqmoLgQ&list=UUHA7zyPRS3VPDvl4ehss-zw&index=3&feature=plcp

<pyeung45> 1501 in 2010

<Hallry1676> Can two robots be next to each other on the ramp, like right side-left side rather than one in front of the other?

<LeviBackgammon> Sure

<GCentola1126> But, knowing this, do you think teams will build smaller robots this year?

<Guest 21> no

<LeviBackgammon> If you can fit them.

<Guest 21> no

<LeviBackgammon> ?

<LeviBackgammon> Rule against it?

<Guest 17> will there be robots that stack other robots on top?

<Leeland1126> Ramps is 88 inches long. 3 robots at 28" thick, plus bumpers... that's scary...

<Guest 21> sorry levi

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<Guest 17> will some teams do it?

<SuperNerd256> link!

<Guest 29> LINK

<Guest 20> question on bumper rules: does anyone know what bumpers a circle robot needs?

<SuperNerd256> PLease give the link!

<Guest 28> LINK

<Guest 46> LINK por favor

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<grimtuesday> is the chat still going?

<GCentola1126> similar to 148 in 2008. Small and purposeful, great asset

<Guest 21> Ok so this is an extreme sidebar but are 2056 and 1114 like sister teams?

<lawrence1503> It was sent via MMS

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<Hallry1676> 148 in 2008 was crazy...

<LeviBackgammon> Chat's going strong.

<Guest 46> i believe 1114 helped start 2056

<LeviBackgammon> Link 29 posted is fantastic.

<LeviBackgammon> Thank you, sir.

<Guest 17> 20, do a nonagonal robot. they have a 100% chance of winning einstein

<lawrence1503> 1114 started 2056

<Guest 29> If you read Simon's email, you would've seen it Levi

<Guest 21> ohhh ok

<lawrence1503> A former 1114 student is the lead technical mentor on 2056

<Guest 21> cause 2056 is insane

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<Guest 46> Guest 17 - lol

<Guest 21> oh geez

<grimtuesday> l

<LeviBackgammon> vid #4

<LeviBackgammon> yes

<Guest 21> omg poohbear?

<Guest 21> i remember that

<Guest 21> he was a genius

<pyeung45> no likes that guy

<schreiaj> Poohbear was amazing

<Guest 20> no. 148 in 2008

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<stevend223> its not vital

<Guest 21> I wonder how that robot panned out?

<Guest 28> yeah, 40 pts vs 0 if you try 3

<Guest 19> Enjoyable pain in the butt.

<stevend223> but teams who can go over it will be a HUGE advantage

<Guest 21> Barrier will be driven over OFTEN

<pyeung45> brute force

<grimtuesday> l

<SuperNerd256> Teams who can go over quickly will be a great asset.

<grimtuesday> anyone elses chat keeps breaking?

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<ipburbank> mine is fine

<Guest 28> fine

<stevend223> what is the bump? steel?

<pyeung45> is it important to change sides quickly?

<Guest 29> Steel

<LeviBackgammon> Bent steel

<ipburbank> it will be steel yes

<DrTheta> kit wheels work for climbing the bump?

<stevend223> thats what i assumed, thanks

<Guest 28> how much will you actually need to cross though?

<Guest 21> yeah

<ipburbank> 6" wheel might get a lot more traction going up the wood than the steel.

<smitsmcgee> Are pneumatic tires necessary for taking the Barrier at speed?

<pyeung45> i don't see a high need to cross over much

<SuperNerd256> Different grip meaning what? Easier to slide, or harder to get up on?

<Guest 23> What size wheels are you all using?

<pyeung45> 6"

<Guest 46> 8" pneumatic

<Guest 21> Average score prediction time

<Guest 23> 8" pneumatic look usable from andymark

<Guest 21> 12

<Guest 21> 12 point average

<Guest 46> we're looking at a diy 8" pneumatic, similar to Andymark's

<stevend223> jersey was beautiful yesterday

<Hallry1676> ^agreed

<ipburbank> I love 40-60 deg

<Guest 29> Sometimes snow days kill build time...

<GCentola1126> I keep wanting to say "bump" and "lane"

<Guest 5> not even snow in ontario right now. dissappoint

<Hallry1676> yes.

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<LeviBackgammon> How did we get to this?

<GCentola1126> cursed terminology from other years

<Guest 21> no

<stevend223> i'd say no, but it's a huge vital advantage

<Guest 21> of course

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<SuperNerd256> Kangasbapathy

<Guest 21> hahaha

<Guest 29> KAAARRTHIIICCCKKK

<SuperNerd256> Did I spell it right?

<stevend223> he was talking about jim zondag right?

<schreiaj> Jon Jack 

<Guest 29> Link to that vid?

<schreiaj> It is MMS

<pyeung45> about 4"

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<SuperNerd256> Can you PLEASE post the video? I need to leave soon.

<Guest 5> Supernerd: i think you missed two a's

<Guest 21> Tough

<schreiaj> what part of It is MMS do you not understand?

<Guest 37> the 'mms'

<SuperNerd256> Didn't see mms

<schreiaj> Multimedia Messaging System

<Leeland1126> How viable would arcing the ball be?

<Hallry1676> Will shotting in the top row be important?

<ipburbank> goes back to funnel

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<Hallry1676> *shooting

<grimtuesday> no chat?

<SuperNerd256> What's the ball like when it bounces off the backboard? Will it fall into the basket?

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<Guest 17> Teams will try for the 3 for offeason, to present their robot in a real hoop situation

<ipburbank> Our programmer is looking into using the IR light on the connect

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<Guest 21> Grim, your too smart

<Guest 21> 

<Guest 17> For low level play, not completely true

<Hallry1676> So is the second row more important than third?

<Guest 21> Thats a pain

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<stevend223> hallry, arguably, yes, it is

<Guest 17> For most teams, it's likely better scoring. For high level, no

<Hallry1676> Huh, interesting

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<stevend223> because also, a missed ball there has potential of going into the 1, and in my opinion your chances of a missed shot going in the one, are much more..

<stevend223> likely than missing a top row shot(odds are your shot will be more powerful) and falling into the second

<Guest 23> Titanium's 2010 'catapult' was pretty effective

<Hallry1676> hmm, true

<Guest 29> Better flow

<Guest 29> Make it give it

<DrTheta> Titaniums was 09

<Guest 17> group analysis of endgame?

<DrTheta> They often used it as an empty cell mover

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<smitsmcgee> I'm holding you to that.

<lawrence1503> past the key as in closer to you

<Guest 17> Stevend, that won't happen often

<ipburbank> quick question: evaluation of the new motors?

<Hallry1676> Will many keys drive to the key, sit there, and just shoot?

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<stevend223> true, 17, but its still something to think about

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<Hallry1676> *will many teams drive t othe key, sit there, and just shoot?

<schreiaj> Idk if we've had enough time to play with motors yet

<schreiaj> NO one's smoked motors

<stevend223> you'll see teams relying on the key for shot protection, IMO

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<Hallry1676> Isn't the key slick, though? Will it be easy to get in the same position on?

<GCentola1126> high level matches will be very fun to watch

<DrTheta> Like the game dislike coopertition's influence on seeding

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<ipburbank> are there any new useful motor power/weight/speed ratios?

<Guest 29> You may have to bake a lot of cookies

<stevend223> its the same material(HDPE) as the bridge

<GCentola1126> There are lots of strategies that seem like they could make it slow to watch

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<Guest 49> they will keep the co-op aspect

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<stevend223> limited balls might cause the game to feel slow at times

<Guest 23> how is it 15 balls at one time?

<GCentola1126> well at least FLR is week 2 so we can see the came first 

<GCentola1126> *game

<stevend223> 9 in robots, 6 by inbounders

<Guest 28> 3 per 3 bots, 2x per inbounder = 15

<smitsmcgee> Hahaha that could be good or bad... We'll see.

<Guest 23> oh wow, that's effective

<smitsmcgee> That was about FLR.

<DrTheta> Without the coopertition=qualification points it would be good

<GCentola1126> it has good and bad parts

<stevend223> but the 6 inbounder balls are only short time, ie. they need to be rid of quickly

<Guest 37> or 1 point for cooperition

<Guest 49> but 6 of them could have been scored on you putting you at a 18 point disadvantage

<Guest 37> .5 for attempted

<Guest 28> they can hold 6, they just need to take them out of the corral

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<GCentola1126> just not 2010 ranking system!

<schreiaj> yea

<DrTheta> I am worried they might have to do the same this year

<Guest 21> can they change it

<Guest 21> or no

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<Guest 2> i thought the 2010 ranking system was great once they added the 5pts for winning

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<DrTheta> It was servicable

The recording has ended.

<Guest 21> can they possibly change their mind on the co-op tier by now?

<Guest 17> Can we type in questions and have them answered?

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<Guest 17> CAST ENDS HERE

<thefro526> G17, thanks

<Guest 17> How would it change if the co-op effect on seeding is halved from what it is now

<Guest 29> I agree with Simon

<stevend223> also accuracy was less important

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<schreiaj> Different weighting or just push it to tier 2 would be best

<Guest 21> You could only shoot three balls.

<Guest 21> how is that game changing?

<stevend223> someone on my team said that too <__<

<Hallry1676> That's a good idea...

<Guest 29> Thank you to all!

<Guest 21> $@#$@#$@#$@#

<Guest 21> i am human player and left

<Guest 29> Like I said

<Guest 29> he's gonna have to bake a lot of coookies

<Guest 51> Full court shots are possible but only in last 30 seconds.

<smitsmcgee> How easy is it to bounce balls across the Barrier?

<Guest 29> But then other robots have to aim into the funnel

<stevend223> its just as hard as shooting a regular basketball

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<LeviBackgammon> Would be nice to have a ball to hold.

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<Guest 21> its dumb

<Guest 21> 

<Guest 46> sell the Kinect for cash for the team? haha

<DrTheta> You could just plan a lag in the code

<Guest 29> AAWWWWWW

<stevend223> ^^an alumni had that idea haha

<Guest 29> I JUST Noticed that

<Guest 21> sell Kinect for pizza money? im in

<Guest 29> Last 30 second inbounder scoring is like scoring from half court in basketball

<smitsmcgee> not with 2 8in balls and a 18in hoop

<Guest 29> Half court?

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<stevend223> ever shoot a basketball and get it stuck in the side of the rim? is that possible?

<Guest 51> two balls will definitely go thru the rim at one time physically

<smitsmcgee> We used them one year... never again.

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<stevend223> no like, the back of the cirlce

<Guest 2> stuck between side of rim and backboard

<Hallry1676> I think he means lodged behind the rim and the backboard

<stevend223> its hard to describe in words

<stevend223> yes

<Guest 17> There's a photo on CD where it's stuck behind the hoop

<stevend223> 2 and hallry that's exactly what i mean

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<Guest 51> Yes it is possible to get the ball stuck on the rim on the back plate as well as between the rim and glass.

<Guest 28> like 2010

<Guest 29> noooo

<Guest 28> I saw the scoring sensors

<smitsmcgee> Nick are you going to FLR this year?

<Guest 29> Feel better!

<smitsmcgee> Yeah

<Guest 28> yeah

<Hallry1676> At least the balls won't be popping like the tubes did =P

<Guest 29> Why not?

<Guest 46> who said they'd be in PGH??

<Guest 29> I'd like to hear the reason

<smitsmcgee> Fair enough

<DrTheta> They will be getting chunks torn out instead

<smitsmcgee> And me!

<Hallry1676> Theta, true

<Guest 29> I've done it

<smitsmcgee> Haha yeah, no problem

<Guest 29> Nope

<Guest 29> doesn't count

<Guest 29> The ball counter is located in that rectangular thing

<Guest 46> huhhhhhhhhhhh haha

<Guest 29> I don't think so

<Guest 29> Yup

<Guest 29> Awww FLR's been great for us

<DrTheta> They'd still win

<Guest 29> So yeah, I actually want to hear why mecanums are so bad

<smitsmcgee> 29, what team are you from?

<Guest 29> 639, same as Simon

<Hallry1676> That's Code Red, right?

<smitsmcgee> code red right?

<Guest 29> Yup

<Hallry1676> Not good in pushing matches

<Guest 29> But is pushing that important this year?

<Guest 26> No wheels>Mec wheels

<Guest 29> hahahahha

<Guest 29> ..

<lawrence1503> G26 yes

<Guest 29> Use ALL the Mecanum

<Guest 26> 639 reppin here, I hate mec, treads all the way

<thefro526> I <3 Mecanum

<thefro526> Oh wait, I meant sammiches

<lawrence1503> The Fro, you are sick

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<lawrence1503> go to bed to get your head straight

<DrTheta> but but sammiches

<lawrence1503> oh

<lawrence1503> sammiches

<Cyberphil> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89737&highlight=mecanum+maneuvering

<lawrence1503> Dustin owes me a sammich

<Guest 29> about 15, we did the trig

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<Guest 17> i have this idled

<Guest 26> TREADS<3

<Guest 17> wtf is going on

<ipburbank> simon - link to that slide of "crr drive progression"

<Guest 29> 

<thefro526> TheFro is one word, Canada

<lawrence1503> where did 526 come from

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<DrTheta> 4 wheel wide might not be terrible

<ipburbank> 4 wheel drive over the bump? that'll be good

<Guest 29> hahahahahaha

<Guest 29> TREAAADS

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<Guest 29> XD

<thefro526> 4WD wide might not be too bad

<thefro526> just not that awesome

<thefro526> but it depends on what you're trying to accomplish

<Guest 29> Crab + lazy susan = death of 639

<stevend223> nonadrive just looks really pretty

<ipburbank> Simon - in reference to your earlier statement: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=24104

<Guest 2> 703 did that

<ipburbank> those are our drive trains for the last few years (minus one or two)

<Guest 29> treads, treads, use ALL the treads

<Guest 29> 4 wheel drive was bashed too

<Guest 26> Simon! stop bashing treads...

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<Guest 29> ...

<ipburbank> who is me?

<ipburbank> (user name)

<Guest 65> Yo

<smitsmcgee> I'll text you if i remember to

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<Guest 29> Wait, didn't thunder chickens use 2 different drives for Breakaway?

<Guest 65> I thought they did

<lawrence1503> Just message me on FB. Nick Lawrence

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<Guest 2> they did

<Guest 29> Use ALL the treads

<Guest 65> Hi Simon

<Guest 65> and IStvan

<Guest 28> any suggestions for a better camera?

<smitsmcgee> 2009

<smitsmcgee> lol

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<Guest 28> treds in 09 would win

<ipburbank> this year treads would be good w/o key

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<Guest 41> if i can, how can you shoot accurately? the reflector tape such

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<DrTheta> Floor loading is going to be big this year

<Guest 29> I can guess the story now...

<Guest 29> Solution? RIP OFF THE CAMERA

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<Guest 29> It's literally what we did

<Guest 26> Simon, why did our treads never break?

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<smitsmcgee> The wheels were at least 10"

<Guest 29> What are you talking about, the duck's treads are DEADER than dead

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<Guest 20> Does anyone know about the bumpers on a circle robot? Do you have vertices?

<smitsmcgee> didnt they go 8 wheels for breakaway?

<Guest 65> Zev

<Guest 65> 

<Guest 17> /r/frc

<ipburbank> we can't year you Z?

<Guest 26> OMFG ZEV GET OUT

<Guest 65> HAHA

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<Guest 17> guest, i have a solution

<Guest 29> Hey be nice

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<Guest 17> 20

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<ipburbank> zev is the man

<Guest 29> So many 639 members..

<Guest 17> make a nonagonal frame. they have a 100% championship win record

<spacegy4> hello peeps. more 639 

<DrTheta> Articulated Ball Drive for the win

<Guest 17> or make an octagonal frame, direct CIM-driven, out of solid 7071 aluminum

<Guest 5> i am telling 781 to listen in

<stevend223> i heard that one

<DrTheta> Decagonal Wheels

<Guest 2> that was awesome

<Guest 29> It's Zev!

<Guest 65> 

<Guest 46> guest 17 - thats what we're doing

<Guest 65> Who's 29?

<Guest 46> haha

<Guest 2> ive listened to all of the casts with zondag

<stevend223> one thing of complaint-for MAR, i dont believe they've announced the ranking system

<Guest 20> yeah you answered that before about the nonagon. Does anyone have the actual answer though.

<Guest 29> Go 639

<spacegy4> hi its Andrew S

<Guest 65> Hey Andrew!

<Guest 65> It's Zev

<smitsmcgee> It's almost all NY

<DrTheta> Minnesota is ranking teams this year for their offseason state championship, I need to look at their ranking system

<Guest 2> dr theta, are you going to duluth?

<ipburbank> ssshhh

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<DrTheta> 10k lakes

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<Guest 2> what team? im from 1714

<DrTheta> 2232

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<Guest 29> Alright I'm out, thanks for the cast to all

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<Guest 2> i think i remember you guys from breakaway

<Guest 29> -Joon

<Guest 2> you had like a semi circle top right?

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<schreiaj> https://trello.com/board/ewcpcasts/4ea3567c5191a4de46010186

<DrTheta> We played you in the Quarterfinals last year with C.O.R.E too

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<Guest 17> Theta, an email sent out last year that's copying michigan for an idea

<Guest 17> not the final method, but awards were downplayed

<Guest 2> oh your right, those were fun matches

<Guest 17> 3633 from albert lea here

<Guest 17> north star

<DrTheta> Thanks

<DrTheta> One less thing to look for

<Guest 17> e.g. 10 for robot awards, 5 for animation/non robot awards, 15 for RAS/EI/RCA

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<stevend223> i feel like that's out of place for being done at championship

<stevend223> like, there's so much other stuff to do at champs

<Guest 60> video is always nice

<Guest 17> I think video if someone is pulling up related images would be good

<DrTheta> I'll have to take a look in at superior this year if I get the chance. It's going to be pretty deep

<Guest 17> just staring at someone's webcam would be boring and a waste of bandwidth

<stevend223> well actually, in the sense of a conference like they have at championships, as a conference discussing collaboration, that's not a bad idea

<Guest 2> yeah, we have a whole wi group coming up

<Guest 17> not all of us can watch that without lag

<Guest 67> I'm with 17

<Guest 5> I like video, but bandwidth limits 

<DrTheta> Webcam only if you show us your robots, jk

<stevend223> maybe adding images into your cast

<ipburbank> I think it would be nice keep track of who is who

<stevend223> yeah, graphics would be nice

<LeviBackgammon> Be able to pop up relevant images

<stevend223> maybe a live smartboard esque thing, sorta like a powerpoint presentation

<LeviBackgammon> Why not just use chat for that?

<LeviBackgammon> Link, etc

<Guest 17> dn't throw them up occasionally, throw them up always

<smitsmcgee> Kinda like the ESPN show Around the Horn

<spacegy4> it would be better than just throwing up links in chat

<Guest 17> type up notes on a cloud-based notepad and post it

<LeviBackgammon> If you want readable diagrams you won't have video small enough to stream smooth

<Guest 17> during the show

<LeviBackgammon> What 17 said.

<ipburbank> I like the way TWiT does it

<Guest 17> e.g. link to diagram mentioned at 20:14 www.imgur.com/12345

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<Guest 17> paste that in notes

<Guest 17> when done, attach

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<stevend223> i think its 39 people just mentioning it

<ipburbank> when is "now" tho?

<stevend223> 24 hours? since last post?

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<stevend223> just type up powerpoint presentation-esque notes during the cast

<schreiaj> Sorry phone died brb

<Guest 17> Doubt it

<Guest 17> In the video they posted...

<Guest 17> they were noticeably taking several shots

<Guest 17> They had to TRY to miss and get it in on the bounce

<Guest 17> This won't be common

<Guest 2> our mentor didnt want to take the ball out of the bag, and kept bouncing it in the bag showing how it wont bounce

<stevend223> they're about an inch bigger than 2006

<Guest 2> i had to convince him to try bouncing it out of the bag

<schreiaj> absolutely

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<smitsmcgee> Once the exterior is punctured the properties change a lot.

<Guest 26> Elevation!

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<Guest 17> byes

<spacegy4> yup. high schoolers have school tomorrow

<stevend223> byea ll

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<spacegy4> looking forward to the next one

<LeviBackgammon> Thanks for the cast, guys.

<Guest 51> thanks for the show. great info as usual

<smitsmcgee> Yeah thanks guys

<stevend223> can't wait for next week's cast, these will be nice

<spacegy4> thanks for the cast even though I only caught the end

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<DrTheta> thanks guys

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<spacegy4> I'd have to install itunes.

<Guest 41> hey if i can ask how would one shoot the ball into the hoop accurately with out the gaffer tape?

<schreiaj> http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=98466&cmd=tc

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<spacegy4> thanks guys. I'll give it a listen

<Guest 17> Question: will there be an audio only option?

<Guest 5> +1

<spacegy4> video would be a good way to show pics without having to post links in chat

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<spacegy4> there are good ways to stream video. justin.tv works quite well

<Guest 51> muiti point video can be very distracting

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<spacegy4> yeah. that can.

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<spacegy4> lol. Treads ftw :P

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<smitsmcgee> id follow you

<Guest 51> Yes i think Twitter would be great.

<schreiaj> @ewcpcast

<Guest 51> Twitter is probably the best tool for developing a personal learning network out there.

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<Guest 69> Guest 51 - definitely, been able to do cool stuff through twitter

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<spacegy4> cya guys. thanks