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-   -   Running the Kinect on the Robot. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99275)

davidthefat 08-01-2012 12:25
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
The best price per performance has to be a PS3. 6 SPEs (SIMD processors) and 1 dual threaded PPE (RISC, PowerPC Core) at 3.2 GHz open to your use. Can be picked up at around $250, no where near the $400 limit. Also, a laptop that price will have performance significantly lower. PS3 still running linux will be open to the Video4Linux drivers that support a variety of webcams and the Kinect drivers were originally written for linux. If you are even up for it, you can hook up 2-3 PS3s to have a mini distributed memory cluster on your very own robot!

But again, good luck even trying to interface one. There also is a 1 minute boot up time for the PS3 into Linux.

But you probably can get better performance with an FPGA, but who's willing to do that?

fb39ca4 08-01-2012 13:20
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 1099386)
The best price per performance has to be a PS3. 6 SPEs (SIMD processors) and 1 dual threaded PPE (RISC, PowerPC Core) at 3.2 GHz open to your use. Can be picked up at around $250, no where near the $400 limit. Also, a laptop that price will have performance significantly lower. PS3 still running linux will be open to the Video4Linux drivers that support a variety of webcams and the Kinect drivers were originally written for linux. If you are even up for it, you can hook up 2-3 PS3s to have a mini distributed memory cluster on your very own robot!

But again, good luck even trying to interface one. There also is a 1 minute boot up time for the PS3 into Linux.

But you probably can get better performance with an FPGA, but who's willing to do that?
But the PS3 has 200W power consumption or something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat (Post 1096951)
As far as I know, most of the depth perception is done on the Kinect itself. It is just transferring the data and images to the PC or 360. Now, you have to realize, you would have to find a way to power the laptop. Batteries are not allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC 2012 Robot Manual
[R36] The only legal source of electrical energy for the Robot during the competition is one MK ES17-12
12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery, or one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery, as provided in the 2012 KOP. This is the only battery allowed on the Robot.

Batteries integral to and part of a COTS computing device are also permitted (i.e. laptop batteries), provided they’re only used to power the COTS computing device.

davidthefat 08-01-2012 13:25
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fb39ca4 (Post 1099460)
But the PS3 has 200W power consumption or something like that.
Some of the new phat versions are 130 W. Not sure on their linux support.

Sparks333 08-01-2012 19:58
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Dunno about opencv support on arm6, but how about a raspberry pi? $35, USB, Ethernet, 700Mhz...

Sparks

RoboMaster 08-01-2012 20:37
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks333 (Post 1099901)
... raspberry pi? $35, USB, Ethernet, 700Mhz
Yeah, nobody has mentioned raspberry pi yet. But isn't 700Mhz too slow? Isn't the cRIO 600Mhz and that's too slow for the Kinect? Sorry if I'm totally wrong, I guess I don't know and I'm more asking than confirming. I couldn't find it in the thread..

Greg McKaskle 08-01-2012 20:56
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
The cRIO is a 400 MHz PPC 603e. There is another FreeScale numbering scheme for it too. It is typically rated at around 780 MIPs I think. These numbers will give you some indication of performance, but keep in mind that benchmarks are often more of a marketing too than an engineering tool. I really don't think that processing the 80x60 depth image on the cRIO would be any sort of issue, and for a virtual LIDAR or obstacle avoidance tool, I think this resolution is more than enough for what you'd need. The most expensive portion of the Kinect is the skeleton tracking. If you aren't worried about that, you are basically using one of the two cameras on the Kinect, not unlike the Axis, but over USB.

As for using Raspberry Pi, I'd personally be a little worried about availability for this season, and then about how new the platform and tools are. I think it sounds amazing, and so does everyone else I know, which is why I'm a little nervous about availability.

Greg McKaskle

realslimschadey 08-01-2012 21:08
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Well the usb on the kinect is not the same as a regular usb. it looks like you took a corner off of a regular usb. Is FIRST going to be giving us a switch or connector???

davidthefat 08-01-2012 21:09
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg McKaskle (Post 1099981)
The cRIO is a 400 MHz PPC 603e. There is another FreeScale numbering scheme for it too. It is typically rated at around 780 MIPs I think. These numbers will give you some indication of performance, but keep in mind that benchmarks are often more of a marketing too than an engineering tool. I really don't think that processing the 80x60 depth image on the cRIO would be any sort of issue, and for a virtual LIDAR or obstacle avoidance tool, I think this resolution is more than enough for what you'd need. The most expensive portion of the Kinect is the skeleton tracking. If you aren't worried about that, you are basically using one of the two cameras on the Kinect, not unlike the Axis, but over USB.

As for using Raspberry Pi, I'd personally be a little worried about availability for this season, and then about how new the platform and tools are. I think it sounds amazing, and so does everyone else I know, which is why I'm a little nervous about availability.

Greg McKaskle
The depth image is 11 bits of data. With that in mind, I have no doubts about the cRio handling it. What I am worried about are the color images. Also, the PS3 has SIMD processors, that means it can calculate 2 pixels in one register.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realslimschadey (Post 1100004)
Well the usb on the kinect is not the same as a regular usb. it looks like you took a corner off of a regular usb. Is FIRST going to be giving us a switch or connector???

No, you are on your own.

Greg McKaskle 08-01-2012 22:03
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
NI-Vision supports 16 bit monochrome images natively, and that is how the depth images are buffered. If you are using color images, then it is similar to the Axis, but the images over USB aren't compressed except for the highest resolution. All of the Axis images are compressed.

If the camera is used as a virtual LIDAR, then the color isn't needed, just depth.

Greg McKaskle

Chris_Ely 09-01-2012 10:54
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Would it be possible to use a USB to Ethernet adapter like this? Send the Kinect information through the bridge to the computer.

RufflesRidge 09-01-2012 10:57
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckof13 (Post 1100523)
Would it be possible to use a USB to Ethernet adapter like this? Send the Kinect information through the bridge to the computer.
That device changes the physical connector, but not the data format. It would be of little to no use in interfacing a Kinect with the cRIO or robot radio.

RoboMaster 09-01-2012 15:51
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by realslimschadey (Post 1100004)
Well the usb on the kinect is not the same as a regular usb. it looks like you took a corner off of a regular usb. Is FIRST going to be giving us a switch or connector???
In the Kinect box we found that the Kinect came with a short adapter cable to change to normal USB.

Greg McKaskle 09-01-2012 16:43
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
That cable also provides power, and the Kinect will not work without it plugged into 110 VAC.

Greg McKaskle

Jonie4 10-01-2012 03:15
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Well, assuming that you can regulate the power going into the Kinect, what if you used an adapter like this:

http://www.silexamerica.com/products...sx-3000gb.html

to forward data to the Driver's Station, then use the laptop there to do all of the image processing, and send instructions to the robot based on that?

Tom Bottiglieri 10-01-2012 03:45
Re: Running the Kinect on the Robot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonie4 (Post 1101382)
Well, assuming that you can regulate the power going into the Kinect, what if you used an adapter like this:

http://www.silexamerica.com/products...sx-3000gb.html

to forward data to the Driver's Station, then use the laptop there to do all of the image processing, and send instructions to the robot based on that?
It looks like amazon has a few other things like this. I wonder if you can specify which port it uses, as the field has a firewall.


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