BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

We tried to install the new version of the black jaguar firmware. (BlackJaguar-99.bin). We only tried this on last years black jags, but each time it bricked. We were able to only unbrick it using last years bdc-comm and BlackJaguar-92.bin. We tried for about 3hours to recover using 99.

Don't know if anyone else is running into this situation, but may be wise to hold off until more information is discovered before flashing.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I didn't experience this. I'll try again on Monday with the files that come out of the utilities update installer. Does this only happen with black jags or does it affect tan jags as well with v99?

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I have not tried to do the gray jag, since we needed the black one working to do this. Will try later today to flash a gray one.

Also found this document on the technical resources page Update Jaguar Firmware

It says that the new black jaguars come with firmware version 8161. It says that the others should be brought to at least that using qs-bdc24.bin. However i have not found any .bin files besides BlackJaguar-99.bin. Is this a miscommunication on the documents part and we are not doing can firmware updates using the same naming structure?

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

That is referring to the public released firmware. Bdc24 means brushed direct current 24volt. That's the name of TI's black jag development kit. Those instructions do not apply to the FRC firmware or use-case.

Joe

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I wonder why FIRST is hosting it, and linking to it from the 2012 KOP Control system page. http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...control-system

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

On http://www.ti.com/jaguar, there is a new version of BDC-COMM (v100). I wonder if this helps. Per http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=18461 there is also v100 firmware, but it's identical to v99.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

The document at that link is WAY out of date. It looks like an old version was accidentally uploaded. I will try and get the people at FIRST to upload the correct file, but in the mean time, this is what you need to know:

All Jaguars using CAN must have the latest FRC firmware installed for the 2012 season.
Jaguars that are using Servo PWM do not have to be updated from their default factory firmware. However, teams using PWM may wish to update their older Jaguars to the latest firmware in order to gain access to the new Automatic Ramp feature.

The required firmware version depends on the control mode you're using:

• Using CAN, you must use version 99 or higher of FRC Trusted firmware.
• When using PWM, many firmware versions are acceptable:
  • If you need the Automatic Ramp mode, you can use version 99 or greater FRC Trusted firmware, or you can use Non-FRC Trusted (factory) firmware 8161 or greater.
  • If you do not need the Automatic Ramp mode, you can use any version of FRC Trusted firmware or Non-FRC firmware.

A table in the updated document makes this easier to understand. Here is a quick rule of thumb:

If you are using CAN, you must update all of your Jaguars to at least version 99 of the FRC Trusted firmware. If you're using PWM only, but you want the new Automatic Ramp mode on your old Jaguars, I recommend updating to FRC Trusted version 99 or higher anyway. Remember, any Jaguars recieved in the 2012 KOP have the new factory default firmware with the Automatic ramp mode, but are not loaded with the FRC Trusted firmware required for CAN.

-David

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Just tried it again using the 100version and the same issue persists. Am still in the process of trying to recover it to a workable state.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Are you trying to update with v99 or v100 of bcd comm or are you using an older version?

Joe

I have tried using the ones that match each version. I have used the older one after several tries to put 92 back on them.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

What is the exact behavior that makes you believe they are Bricked? Is there no flashing LED?

Correct no leds and messages failed to flash

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

The Jags is most likely just stuck in boot loader and not "Bricked". Try re-downloading the BIN and make sure the BIN is for the correct version of the Jag (black or gray). If you try and load gray jag firmware onto a black jag the jag will stay in boot loader. Since there is no led state to indicate that the Jag is in boot loader, it appears as if it is bricked.

I am sure it is stuck. All versions ar downloaded new.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I just successfully loaded version 100 onto a black jag using a 2CAN. Have you tried updating the firmware using the 2CAN?

We do not own one.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I just flashed a 2012 Black Jag with version 100 bin. It took two attempts however. The first time I tried, the 2CAN status LED was RED indication an issue on the CAN side. The web dash confirmed this. Attempting to flash the jag resulted in failure (as expected) and the web dash indicated "no ack received" After power cycling the JAG only, the status LED turned orange, the Jag appeared in the web dash and version 100 was successfully uploaded.

You may have already tried this, power cycle the jag and re-attempt the flash.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I have flashed version 99 several times and never experienced this issue. I will try to reproduce it when I get home.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Ok, so tried to a tan/gray jaguar now daisy chained to one of the blacks. It was running 92 and tried to update to 100 it failed. I recovered it back to 92.

I am using a usb to serial adapter, but since I was able to do it to 92 and I can use adjust the controller with bdc-comm, I am assuming that is not an issue.

Thanks for everyone's help I appreciate it.

Kyle

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Our jaguars also stopped blinking when I tried to update the 99 firmware. I wasn't able to recover to 92, 99, or 100 using their respective bdc-comm exe's. Finally, I tried recovering it on another computer (the classmate) and that worked. (I happened to recover the the v100).

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Check your cabling and termination resistors, if the cable loses connection at all during the bootloading process the Jaguar will remain in bootloader appearing "bricked". If you are not confidant in your cables several companies sell CAN cables already assembled. Also make sure your termination resistor is secure and properly connected. If you are using a 2CAN use the web dash features and the LED state to ensure you have good CAN connectivity.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I finally switched to a third computer with a built in com port and was able to successfully upload v100. The cause of our issue seems to have been the usb to serial adapter. Unfortunately at this point I am only having trouble communicating with one of the gray jaguars that was corrupted in all this.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

This question isn't exactly related to the previous comments, but does anyone know if the Jaguars that shipped in the KOP are already running the FRC2012 firmware? We only need one that has the automatic ramp feature and I'm hoping that it's already built in. From TI's FAQ:

Q5 Which Jaguars have the Automatic Ramp mode?
A Jaguars purchased or received during or after the 2012 season contain the Automatic Ramp mode in the
factory default firmware. Older Jaguars can be updated to the latest firmware. See the Jaguar Getting Started Guide for more information.

I think I'm just splitting hairs on semantics here but I would really like to verify this first, as we will not have a electrical board that can power up to do a POST anytime soon.

I am aware that we can update the firmware on older jaguars and/or can perform the same operation in software, just was hoping that it was already built into the ones we received already.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

If by Automatic Ramp you mean a voltage ramp, the firmware has always supported this for use with CAN. If you wish to leverage this feature over PWM I am not aware of a version of the firmware that supports this. If you are using CAN you should update to the latest version of firmware.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

If they came in the kit, they are not FIRST firmware, but they have the ramp mode. The Jaguar document should be pretty clear about this.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

The latest released non-FIRST version supports this on PWM mode by rotating the limit switch jumpers 90 degrees. So does FIRST version >= 99. See the Jaguar document on FIRST's website.

-Joe

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Ah it's in the FAQ, something I do not read anymore, TI should probably put this in the user manual under jumper configurations.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

I would like to encourage teams to read the 2012 Jaguar FAQ because it contains lots of useful information and can save lots of time when debugging simple issues.

In addition to the FAQ, the Jaguar Getting Started Guide has even more information, including info on the Automatic Ramp Mode (in the Operating Modes section, page 11).

Both of these documents are found at www.ti.com/jaguar.

-David

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Mike - We were a Beta Testing team this year and the Jaguars we were Beta Testing had this enabled for PWM. I should have stated this in my original comment. Thanks for the info!

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Mike and Joe,

I think one of you has a problem. We tested the V93 firmware just prior to RiverRage and ran into a problem of not being able to flash the new firmware. I had the same issues with the V100 firmware. *None* of my Jags could be flashed. The 2CAN reported a timeout error for each.

We tried having a CAN bus with just 1 gray/tan Jag. Tried switching terminator resistors. None of that helped.

However, we easily re-flashed the V92 firmware. Fortunately, I found the post that said it was in Public Documents\FRC on my computer. It's not searchable on the TI website.

Any suggestions on what to try next? Would using the BDC-COMM app over a USB to serial connection help? Might we need an upgrade to the 2CAN firmware?

KC
Software Mentor, Team 1073

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Not quite sure what you mean here. Joe and I do not write the TI firmware we are only trying to help support it.


What is the color of the 2CAN led with only one Jag on the BUS? Do you have the latest 2CAN plugin installed (v66) and what version of 2CAN firmware are you running? If you have the latest firmware and plugin a red LED will indicate poor CAN connectivity. If you have a good CAN connection to ANY jag on the BUS you will get a green LED so until you are able to successfully flash one of the JAG's with the latest firmware do not add any more to the BUS. If the firmware flash update fails on the first attempt using the 2CAN try a couple more times there is a small bug in the latest version of the 2CAN firmware (2.18) that occasionally fails to flash the firmware on the first attempt. This is being fixed for the next release and only affects flashing the jags and has nothing to do with CAN performance.

You may already be aware of this but make sure you are using the correct version of firmware. The gray Jag has different firmware than the Black. The Black JAG firmware has the word Black in it.

It should not matter which method you use to update the JAG firmware. Your problem could very easily be your CAN cables or termination resistors. The fact that you were sucessful at loading version 92 tells me that the problem is intermitant, this points to cabling/termination or you are trying the wrong version 100 firmware.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

We're using the set of plugins that came in FRC_2012_V43.zip on the old 8-slot cRIO. During boot the 2CAN plugin says it is SVN rev 72.

From the 2CAN firmware utility, it says the 2CAN firmware is 2.5. The bootloader version is 1.1. Man rev (not sure what that is) says 1.3 and Man Date 12/12/2009.

Am I running the right stuff? These numbers don't seem to match.

Right now, our bot is back to working with the V92 Jaguar firmware, and the 2CAN light is green. At some point, I saw the 2CAN light be red (flashing, if memory serves). We're going to try again tomorrow to upgrade to V100.

Do you recommend that we disconnect the bus so that only 1 Jag is on the bus at a time when we flash?

KC
Software mentor, team 1073

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Latest Jag firmware is 101. (posted in a different thread) Try that. TI recommend only one Jag connected when flashing firmware. Except when flashing a gray jag & using the RS232 convertor on the black jag. Since you are using 2can that would not apply.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Firmware version 2.18 is the latest for FRC but 2.5 should work fine.

Yes.

A red LED means you do not have CAN connectivity, bad cabling, bad termination resistor. If the 2CAN LED is intermittent between green and red then you have an intermittent can connectivity issue, you may confirm this in the web dash by viewing the CAN tx/rx error counter. If the error counter is incrementing you have a CAN connectivity problem.


I have never had a problem updating JAG firmware with multiple JAG's on the BUS as long as they each have a unique ID, however when you are trying to troubleshoot, it is always a good idea to make the problem as simple as possible.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Team 857 is having a very similar issue. Our grey jags had v92, and we tried today to update to v101. Attempting to flash resulted in timeout errors, and after a few attempts, the light on the jags turned off. We have not yet tried the new black jags.

I tried flashing v92 back on, but the same timeouts occurred. We did then update the 2CAN from v2.1 to v2.18. Still no success. The CAN always flashed green after booting.

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

We were able to go back to V92 easily. I'm not sure if it helps, but we power cycled frequently during the whole process.

KC

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

How many Jags are on the BUS when attempting to flash?
What is the TX/RX error count in the 2CAN web dash and is it incrementing?

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Is there a limit to the number of jaguars allowed?
I've looked through the manual several times, just cant find it. Even a page number where i could look it up at?

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

There isn't a limit, but the Jags all have to have unique device numbers. Having fewer devices simplifies things if you are having problems. When I update (on a known working setup) I have 12 or 13 Jags on the bus.

-Joe

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

There's a cable length limitation which I believe is 20' for the CAN bus. You should also have a terminator at the last Jag. You can have about 62 Jags since the IDs for the Jags are 5-bit (64 values) and you shouldn't label any of them 0 or 1.

- Bryce

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

This is not the case. See the below post.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=20

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Just quoting specs.

- Bryce

Re: BlackJaguar-99.bin issues
 

Correct. This spec is what CAN controllers and PHY's are design to.