Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Hi, I'm a little unclear about the rules here. In Section 3 of the manual, "The Game," under 3.1.6, "Human Actions," in section <G31> it says that "Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance must be held by Inbounders." So, it's pretty clear that you can't just leave the opponent's balls in the corrals. Plus, you can hold up to 2 balls at a time.

However, in section <G32>, it says "Inbounders may enter Basketballs onto the court by...passing through the Inbound Slots at any time." Now, I know the intent of that clause was to say that you can pass balls through the slots at any point in the game, unlike throwing it over the Inbound Station, which can only happen during the last 30 seconds.

But it doesn't really say how long the human players can hold the two balls in their hands. They have to pick it up immediately, yes, but it doesn't say they have to return them immediately. In that case, up to 8 of the 18 total balls in play could be held by human players for the duration of the match. That would really change the scoring, since almost half the balls would be out of play, held by the human players. I'm sure I'm missing or misinterpreting something, but if not, maybe FIRST can release an update correcting this. Thanks.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I thought the same thing, too. I'm sure a rule will come out about it in one of the first few updates.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

As of now, you are completely correct. As long as the corral is empty and the human inbounders only hold two balls at a time, you could hoard balls.

I would expect a revision on that though.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Yeah, If all three human player people have balls that's 6 + three in each robot on your alliance 9, So 6 + 9 = 15, This leaves, if estimates and assumptions are correct, between 1 and 3 balls left in play. (16 balls or 18, no clear definition in rules)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

18

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

See I'm unsure if they will put the two balls they put on the bridges on the co-opertion bridge, there already putting any extras on there.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Why are you unsure? The rule is pretty specific:
The first sentence gives the general condition - 2 balls on each bridge. The second sentence tells what will happen if a robot doesn't use the ball(s) allocated to it. The sentences are independent of each other.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Exactly, so if each of the 6 Imbounders can hold 2 of the balls, and all do at the same time, that's 12 balls out of play, and only 6 others available on the field. Pretty big disadvantage.

If each of your alliance's Imbounders had 2, and if all of your robots had 3, that's only 3 left for the opposing alliance.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Note that it would only be prudent for an inbounder to have 5 balls at a time; the middle guy would have to only have one ball at a time another drops in.

If he had two in his hand, the last guy would have to bounce one out, then they would all have to pass one down all before the new one hits the station.

Is this THE YEAR...
 

Riddle me this batman...

It's show time on Einstein...

Blue alliance is a 3 balancing team. Red is not -- 2 balance max.

As long as Red cannot out score Blue by 20 points, the game is over.

Assume both red and blue score the same or similar scores in hybrid. I am guessing 32 is a common hybrid score -- perfect is 36. Say they tie 32-32

Of the 6 balls on the field, only the 2 on the Coopertition Bridge are in play (really), let's give those 2 to Red.

So... Red has access to 10 balls (including the ones with their inbounders and the on their bridge plus the middle bridge)

Blue has access to 8 balls.

After securing their 8 balls, Blue parks a robot in their Alley .9 robot widths from the window.

Blue inbounders in drop the balls in bounds between the Blue Window minder

Red scores 3 pts on all 10 balls (say). All 10 balls end up between the Blue Window Minder robot and the corner or in a Blue robot.

There are no more balls for Red to score.

Blue just keeps the balls away from Red by sitting in their alley and perhaps move to make sure every robot has 3 balls ready to score in each robot, but otherwise they spend the whole match sitting in their alley lined up to do a 3 point balance at the last minute.

Red, can do nothing but watch.

I was going to say that this is a guaranteed win for Blue but if Red scored all 10 balls in the 3pt hoop, they are winning by 30 points. If Red can do a 2 Robot Balance,

In which case, then Blue a robots will have to some how score 10+ points before they make their move... ...whoa, that'll be an AWESOME finish for Einstein...

...dang...

There is a TON to like about this game and I can't find anything seriously wrong with it yet.

Is this going to be THE YEAR that FIRST has that Killer Game we've all been pining for?

...Time will tell, but I think maybe so...

Joe J.

Re: Is this THE YEAR...
 

Maybe incorrect. GDC reserved the right to change the balancing points at Championships. (G40 footnote.) I think they want the Einstein teams shooting instead of parking to balance. Or course, Einstein level teams may be able to do balance and shoot at the same time. That would be EPIC!

Re: Is this THE YEAR...
 

...stop... ...you're making me weep...

I missed that and I couldn't be happier!

FIRST needs to have more explicit statements like this. Look at the NBA, they may rules all the time "for the good of the game" (by which they mean "more exciting to watch on TV so we get more folks to watch the NETs can get more advertizing $ so that the NBA can get more $... ...but I digress...)

This is a good thing.

Joe J.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

36 points is not a perfect autonomous, though. A perfect autonomous involves shooting all 6 balls that are preset, then turning around, grabbing the 6 on the bridges, and scoring those, for a total of 72 points. Who knows, maybe some strange rebound from the other team might even cause a ball to bounce to the other side and be grabbed and scored, for 78 points or more. <- I'm betting grabbing the balls on the bridges will happen, especially for those top tier teams.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Only 4 of the 6 balls are available to a team.
I suppose if a robot can autonomously obtain a ball without contacting the opposing bridge, that score is feasible. I wouldn't try it, though.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Well, technically, a robot COULD grab those 2 on the opposing bridge. You wont be interfering with balancing, so you get the technical foul for 9 points, if you get both balls in the top hoop during Hybrid mode, they're worth 12, for a net gain of +3. The 9 points is an opportunity cost.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

A minimum of 4 are available to a team, there could be more, though, due to the extras, if there are any, being placed on the Coopertition Bridge.

[G05] Each Bridge will be preset with two Basketballs. Basketballs allotted to Robots that are not used, will be preset on the Coopertition Bridge.
(emphasis mine)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Is putting balls on the ground considered "holding"? Now what about juggling? :P

Yeah, yeah...loopholes, I know. Just thinking outside the box.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I believe that the highest number of balls on the middle bridge could be 14 balls
2 to start
and 6 more from EACH alliance (if no robot on the field puts any on their robot) 2 per robot not using them... 3 X 2 X 2 alliances

That being said... IF a robot can shoot and come back to the middle and get balls... they could only control three before they shoot.

Even with a Kinect controlled Hybrid Auto Robot... I would think any team would be hard pressed to shoot 2... go back and get three and shoot them and then come back AGAIN for 3 more and shoot them in 15 seconds...so I would imagine that the realistic limit for score during auto would be

36 plus 18 which would be 54 points

Now IF one robot could do that autonmously... and another Kinect robot could grab 3 more balls and shoot them...after the autonomous robot scored 3...you could possibly have a score of 54 + 18 or 72...

That would incredible... the only problem is that it would require the opposing alliance to put at least 4 of its 6 balls in the middle. (to get to six extra on the middle bridge side)...

If I were on the opposing side against an alliance that COULD do this in an elimination ... I would find a way to put 2 balls on each robot...

I think during eliminations we will be looking at max scores of
36 plus 2 middle balls or 48 points...for the reason given directly above.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Will we be able to touch or tilt the Coopertition Bridge if their are more than 3 balls on it at an point in the match? Tilting the bridge would be then controlling the motion of all of the balls on the bridge. A given robot isnot allowed to control the motion of more than 3 balls at a time.

I know this is not the intent of the rule, but it is not excluded either.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

You could hoard an amount of balls in your lane given that when they enter your lane and you tap them it gives you three points. Essentially if your inbounders held 6 balls and your robots held 9 then the other three could be hoarded in the lane. This could work as long as the guarding robot was a significant distance away from the loose balls so it wouldn't be considered controlling the ball.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

You are still controlling the balls when they are in your alley:

Emphasis mine. Blue box [G22]

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I'd say that only while you are moving them are you considered to be controlling them. Thus the specification of trapping the ball.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

But the robot is not "moving or positioning" the balls at all; the inbounders are putting them there, and the robot is simply blocking them. I can't find anything in the rules that bans this strategy yet, although I wouldn't be surprised if there is soon...

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

It depends on the G28 ruling too, because there is no rule that says you can't go in to the opposition alley. Unless you are saying the robot is protecting those balls by blocking the other robot, then it is controlling under the rules.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Not exactly, but there IS a rule that says you can't touch an opposition robot while it is in its own alley. And you can't fit 1.0 robots into an 0.9 robot wide space.

As for "controlling", read that part of the rules again.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

When did a "robot" become a standard unit of measure? ;)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Emphasis mine, but it stands to reason that holding all/some of the balls in the alley would stop the flow of the match.

Even if you did hold the balls, that could be considered controlling, so lets say that you're holding only three balls, if they gave you the technical foul mentioned above, those balls will only make up for the penalty (if you got them all in).

tl;dr: Rules are too vague, not worth it.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Man this happens every year and DR. Joe fell into it ... You have been gone too long my friend. What I mean is that every year we grossly underestimate how hard it is to score ... I mean grossly!!

36 in Auton ... not on Einstein. Maybe at IRI, maybe. I don't doubt all three robots will score in auton on Einstein, but not all three in the high goal. It is too risky for just one lousy extra point. I am not going to risk 5 to get 1.

In any case, scoring is way harder this year than in any other shooting game year and the double balance will be a crucial decider in most matches. I see matches that are 20 - 10 with all the points coming from balance.

In any case, this makes Dr. Joe's hoarding scenario even more plausible in this game.

I don't know how I feel about the triple balance. Right now I am leaning towards that act being in the same place as the Lochness Monster: A few will claim they have seen it, but no one will be able to prove it.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I have very similar feelings now. After thinking through it, that sounds a lot like the hanging off of a hanging robot in 2010.

Think for a second three drivers reacting to the bridge going past equilibrium and trying to counter. I mean, we don't all have Nick Lawrence for drivers! ;)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Wholeheartedly disagree.

Not only do I think you'll see it (remember, we DID see it in 2010, from 2337 and alliance), but I think it will be a common feature of Regional Champion alliances. 20 pts is just too huge to give up. The 1 extra point in 2010 wasnt worth it, but 20 extra points in 2012 is. You have to make 7 top shelf baskets to make up for it.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I agree that scoring will be more difficult than is being presented here ... that being said, I only see that score (20-10) in early seeding matches. Scores will be higher as the regionals go on.

Also, any alliance thats put together specifically to triple balance (and can do it consistantly) will be my odds on favorite to win the regional.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I think a triple balance is doable with 2 heavy robots and 1 light robot. The key is 2 heavy robots that weigh the same, with the lightweight robot being the one that actually does the balancing (automated via accelerometer). All 3 would have to be wide-drive bots though.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Or...some combination of mechs or omni drives or swerve that can climb the bridge "sideways" or pint sized bots? This assumes mechs and omnis can handle the smooth plastic surface of the bridge...

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I suspect a lot of people will be surprised when they try their wheels of choice on the plastic surface of the bridge. I know we were and are re-evaluating our wheel choice based on carpet and plastic interaction.

Also regarding triple balancing, one of my students put forward the idea the other day what if you as the middle robot "clamped" onto the bumper zone of a friendly robot to help support it so you could cantilever it off the edge of the ramp. I haven't looked to see if that is possible as we tabled the idea for later.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

It only happened once in an entire season.

It really comes down to how the other robots are built and how skilled the drivers are at reacting the bridge. What makes it worse is that you will never see a triple balance until eliminations as teams will be focusing on the coopertition bridge for seeding points.

I wouldn't pick robots to join my alliance planning on doing a triple balance unless we had done it in qualification. That is where the another big issue is that the elims are not the time for testing but performing. I wouldn't glaze over a okay scorer for one that could fit on the bridge only to be bit when we can't pull it off.

These are my two cents.

Re: Is this THE YEAR...
 

While they could do that, when guarding the ball you are actually considered to be controlling it, which violates rule G22.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

<G22> "Moving or positioning a Basketball to gain advantage is considered actively controlling."

The current theory appears to be that once you move a ball you control it.

Think in these terms: Robot A tries to pick up 3 different balls in the back court, but fails. They are now controlling all 3 balls and may not touch another ball for the rest of the match.

This is obviously fallacious.

The reasonable interpretation: Suppose you reused your kicker. Then if you are holding 3 balls (hoppered) and then try to kick a fourth to the other end, you violate g22. But if you are holding 2 balls and then kick 3 balls one after another, no penalty. You only control the ball at the moment it is in contact with your robot.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

I know what you mean, but what I'm trying to convey is if you tried to herd the balls into a corner or if you simply kept all the balls on your side or something like that, it should be a foul/tech.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Currently, I'd say it's not. Others may disagree. The only opinion that really maters is the judges.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Why? Its a perfectly legal strategy?

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

i think you mean the referees....

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Paul,
3 balancing is worth 20pts*.

My read is that that is about right.

The task is hard but not TOO hard. The points are high but not TOO high.

What is it going to take to get 3 robots on that 88" bridge"

Assume robots fill the given space, with bumpers robots are roughly 44" by 34" give or take.

If enough teams go wide (34" up the bridge), then you have 6" hanging out over each side... ...seems doable.

BUT BUT BUT you say, that isn't how balancing works.

AND AND AND... ...of course you are right.

For those who didn't see or don't recall with a few notable excepts (cough cough 71, 308 and I think 1 or 2 others) the way to balance on the bridge was to:

1. Get on the bridge (with goals in that case but it is the same idea),
2. Slowly move up the bridge.
3. Once the bridge (there was an automotive gyro in the kit that year some used, others just had drivers with skills) begins to tilt, move back X inches (3 or 6 I can't recall).
4. The bridge continued up, rocked and stopped. Balanced

IMHO this does NOT need to be a coordinated effort. One robot can do the moving, all that is needed is to move the total bridge CG.

Let's say that we need 18 inches of travel to cover the high end of my memory.

Where do we get 18 inches?

It is hard but not impossible.

If we move the end robots out 9" each that would put them at 15" hanging over the edge. Again, this is hard but hardly impossible. Even if the robots do nothing to make themselves asymmetric so that their weight is exactly at their center, the robot centers are 2" from the edge.

And that give 18" for the balancing robot to move in the middle

So... ...this is hard but not impossible.

And unlike the hanging year where it took a ton of coordinated effort to make it safe and practical get these added points, I think this is essentially the same skill that successful teams will need to balance a Box of Rocks** on the Coopertition Bridge so the work is already half done.

For what it is worth.

Joe J.

*maybe more maybe less but let's assume that FIRST intended to make that 3rd robot worth A LOT so that teams would find it worth trying but not SO MUCH that the game was won automatically with that extra robot. It seems to me that they have done that. I talk with one group of 10+ year veteran and they tell me, it is a ghost, don't chase it. I talk with another and they tell me FIRST has made a game that is nothing but 3 robot balancing. They can't both be right.

** If Mike Bastoni didn't coin this phrase he certainly made it his own. FYI, Bastoni's back in the FIRST Game! Welcome back Plymouth North! FIRST Team #23. Hall of Famers if there ever were ones...

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

While I agree that only 1 robot need do the balancing, It is a coordinated effort to know WHICH robot needs to do it, and where the other 2 position themselves to make it easier.

Also, the teams are going to have to trust one another, because if it's done wrong a robot can fall from 2' (and probably not land on its wheels)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

3 robot balancing is an after lunch on Saturday activity. The practice fields are going to be very popular. If I were running an event, I would randomly assign time slots to the alliances.

As to which robot, I could be wrong but it seems to me that it has to be the middle robot doing the movement to balance. If for no other reason than I would not want to be the robot hanging off the edge that is backing up.

But... ...there are many ways to skin a cat.

The alliance capt names the tune and the other teams strike up the band.

Joe J.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Loved the detail analysis!

I agree with your statements from 2001 and the experience with the bridge; however, that is with one robot and two goals attached to that robot not three independent variables. If the middle robot does all the moving, they are having to push the other robots off the bridge to balance. I have a huge concern with a robot getting pushed part of the way off the bridge and can't make it back if it is pushed too far.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Yes, in 2001, it was 1 robot with two goals in tow, but together the goals did not weigh what 2 robots weight (the were heavy but not that heavy).

Anyway, the trick is to get the CG over the tipping point and then to move it back to a point where it back in the neutral zone.

Because there is only 1 robot moving rather than all 3, I guessed that the single robot would have to move 3X as far as the robot+goals in 2001. And that the robots in 2001 had to move 6" in reverse to stop from overshooting the balance.

I think that both of these are conservative.
I think a clever robot could get the bridge tipped in less space.

Time will tell...

Joe J.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

At least some events start to tear down the practice fields immediately after picking on Saturday. I remember trying to practice lifting with our alliance partners in 2007 as they were trying to take the field down.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Max points during autonomous mode: Unlimited

1) Each bot shoots their balls. Each inbounder then has 2 balls.
2) Get the 4 balls (2 off your bridge, and 2 off the center).
3) When those balls are shot, they have to be replaced by the inbounders, and you can keep shooting.

Also, it may be possible to get balls off the other team's bridge by touching only the ball. If you had a strong enough suction device, you could get balls father than 14 inches from the edge.

Hoarding

One hoarding strategy is to hoard the balls on your bridge. Once placed on your bridge, it is hard for the other team to get them without creating a foul. You could park a bot on the alley side of your bridge, and have it hold the bridge level.

I would argue that the placing of the ball on the bridge is controlling the ball, but once you let go, you are no longer controlling the ball. Thus, an unlimited number of balls could be on your bridge and not be considered controlled. To wit: The competition starts with 2 balls on your bridge, and no bot is considered to be controlling those balls.

I would also argue that controlling the bridge (keeping it from being tilted by the other team) is not controlling the balls.


Balancing strategy

1) design your bot (bot 1) so you can remove dead weight
2) prior to the match, remove enough weight to match the weight of another bot (bot 2).
3) Bot 1 goes on the bridge
4) Bot 2 immediately follows bot 1
5) Bot 3 immediately follows bot 2

Bots "inch" along. As soon as the bridge tips, you are balanced (within the tolerance).

I do not see another way to keep from flipping bot 3 off the bridge. You can't move bot 1 to the end until bot 3 is fully on. Thus, they all must inch along together.

By having Bot 1 and Bot 3 equal weight, you minimize the balancing problems. Ideally each bot has a center of gravity in the middle of the bot. Otherwise that may cause an imbalance that is hard to correct.

Having a high center of mass also causes balancing problems. As the center of mass will move as the bridge goes from tilted to flat. Thus maximizing the dead weight close to the bottom of the bot would be helpful.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Not to mention if it is open you'll have 7 other alliances trying to get on that field as well. 10 minutes on the practice field for each alliance means one alliance won't be on that field if not two if you have an hour break (I have been to regionals where there was 20 minutes from selection to quarter final 1.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

If placing the balls in a location where the other team is penalized for attempting to retrieve them isn't "controlling the ball", it should be. Rule revision would be excellent here. Besides, if you got enough balls hoarded the other team would probably just eat the penalty and grab whatever's on your bridge. And I don't think getting a ball to stop nicely on the bridge will be very easy.

All of this hoarding discussion is great, but I think you guys are missing a rather fundamental point. Which is that hoarding balls is a bad idea.

Guys, your whole strategy is to lose on purpose. You are allowing your opponent to score while you deliberately refrain from scoring. In order to come out of that with a lead, you need to already have racked up ridiculous numbers of points, i.e. be better at scoring than them. If you are better at scoring than them, why are you not scoring?

There is literally no situation in which you can start hoarding and still be close enough to them to win by 3-robot-balancing (to their 2-robot-balancing) unless you are already winning. In which case you could keep it closer by continuing to score than by hoarding.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Except they aren't allowed to touch them until Teleop starts. [G18] ::rtm::

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Boy, this thread sure has wondered far from the original topic of hoarding balls by Inbounders. But back to that topic:

People are apparently somehow assuming that
multiple players on each team may handle balls. Only one player, the
"inbounder" may handle balls. Pertinent rules:

[G04] Each FRC team provides up to four Players (a Coach, two Drivers
and an Inbounder).

[G31] Only Inbounders may contact Basketballs; each Inbounder may hold
a maximum of two Basketballs.
During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral
immediately upon arrival. All
Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once
removed from the Corral.

[G32] During Teleop, Inbounders may enter Basketballs back onto the Court by:
a) passing though the Inbound Slots at any time;
b) throwing over the Inbound Station during the final 30 seconds of Teleop.

There isn't any room for interpretation. 1) only inbounders can handle
balls 2) Inbounders can hold 2 balls max 3) Inbounders must remove
balls from the corral immediately. #3 requires that the inbounder get
rid of any balls s/he is holding so they s/he can "immediately" remove
more balls from the corral. The only hoarding that can occur is if
there are no balls in the corral the inbounder may hang on to two
balls. There are only two innbounders in the game so the maximum
number of balls that can bo hoarded by inbounders is four.

Although as others have said, if the inbounder inbounds balls such that they remain in the alley and your alliance never retrieves them, they are essentially out of play.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

1-3 are correct. The implication of 3 is incorrect. You can be holding one ball and still be able to pickup another, i.e. you do not need to get rid of "any balls you are holding" if you are capable of noticing when a robot is going to score in time to get rid of an equal number of balls. If one ball is entering, the "Corral" Inbounder may be holding 1 ball.

A good set of Inbounders will know when balls are coming. You do have decent lead time considering you know when shots are coming, and may shots, especially rebounds, we be a little slow getting into the corral. It's not easy, but it's entirely plausible to have the "Inbound Slot" Inbounder push balls out and and recieve "Corral" (and potentially "Middle") Inbounder's ball's just before new ones enters the Corral. Thus, good Alliances can essentially hoard up to 6 (though more safely 5). There will be Inbounders trained enough and alliances coordinated enough to do this.

Also, if there's no Alliance robot guarding the alley, Inbounded balls are completely in play to both Alliances.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Am I the only one that doesnt see balancing 3 bots as that big of a deal?

Yes, they'll have to be smaller than max dimensions.

Most bots are within 5 lbs of one another in weight, and you're balancing on a 6" wide platform. The CG's should be close 'enough' to the middle that I think if you can drive the 3 bots on (by having 3-a-bot push 1-a-bot and 2-a-bot from behind), the balancing will take care of itself, as the weight distribution will by definition be /fairly/ close to equal. a 6" wide flat fulcrum is going to mean that your 'balanced' state will have a fairly big tolerance window.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Incorrect. Inbounders may not touch the balls during Hybrid

.
.
.
1 inbounder per FRC TEAM
3 FRC Teams per ALLIANCE
2 balls per inbounder =
6 balls hoarded by inbounders of 1 alliance.

... and I still say they will get a penalty as soon as the opponent scores another basket as an inbounder cannot inbound a ball and immediately retrive a ball from corral at the same time :)

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

The GDC at least started to answer this on the Q&A. I'm not sure I'm satisfied, but they seem to indicate it's not penalizable as long as you rectify the situation as quickly as possible?

Nothing yet about deliberately hoarding 6.

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Um, I can't seem to find the number, but I belive there's a rule which just says, basically, that actions against the spirirt of first are a yellow card, or something close to that. So, hoarding may be possible, but I don't think it would be in the spirit of FIRST. Right?

Re: Inbounding or Hoarding Balls
 

Why would you want to hoard a lot of ball. Because all of the balls the opposing alliance makes in go to your inbounder who then bounce passes them to you side of the field and same for the other alliance.