Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Is your team going with a wide or a long drivebase?

Long
Pros:
Not Tippy
Cons
Longer base takes up more room on bridge

Wide
Pros:
Takes up less room on bridge

Cons:
Tippy

Anything else?

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

tippy tippy tippy. If you're going over the bump, or even over the bridge, you almost always have a large chance of tipping.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Largest bumper gap for a ball intake?

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

well you can only pick up 3 balls at most....

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

If you want to be picked for elims then go wide. No long robot will get on that bridge with two other robots and balance.

Three wides will fit with 11inches of overhang. If one of those is long you are never balancing.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

What if you want to be one of the picking teams in elims? There might be some other considerations too....

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

you could have bots one wide then long then another wide and to balance it out you shift the long bot

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

I vote square bot. My team disagrees but I like it.

Actually, what I really want is a bot that's tiny but still shoots. That would make me happy on the inside.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Use holonomic or mecanum, you'll have both.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

What if the long-bot turns 90* after it's on the bridge?

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

It'll have to be perfectly balanced, and turning with 2 other robots on the bridge will be hard if not impossible.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

The transverse (wide) bot does have its advantages. For one, you have a greater pick up area. Even though you can only carry 3 balls, it'll still be easier if you don't have to worry about being perfectly aligned, you can just run over the balls and grab them. Also, there is a greater chance for tipping, but if you keep a LOW center of gravity, you'll be fine. My team had a transverse bot in 06 and we had no problems, and that was with a giant ramp that you had to climb at the end. It shouldn't be a problem. But hey, it's up to team decisions, you should have your chassis fit the rest of your robot's functionality.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

I think you are overestimating how tippy the bridge is. You can be pretty offset and the bridge will still stay "balanced"

http://youtu.be/-AMaqqmoLgQ?t=1m27s

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Everyone seems to be overestimating this. I predict it will be harder to get two robots on one bridge than it will be to balance the bridge when they are on it.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

But the bridges are pretty slanted; that might make it tricky for a 'wide' one to climb and climb over them.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Doesn't this mean that if the outer bots are 4wd, just the slightest error in driving will send one of the robots toppling over the edge?
This 3 robot balancing act seems to be getting harder and harder...

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

They don't necessarily have to go single file remember.

Bridge is 48" wide, two relatively thin robots could squeeze next to each other. Or overlap could occur to squeeze a third on.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

The offset isn't the problem; the amount of space available for turning is. With 2 other robots, even if they're sideways, you'll only have 20 inches or so in which to turn.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

You'll literally have no space to turn once the other two robots are on. 3 wide robots, with bumpers, will take up 28X3 inches + 4X3 inches, or 96 inches. The bridge is 88 inches. You get a few extra inches if the wheels of the end bots are right at the edge, but not enough. Someone has to hang off or be way smaller than the max dimensions.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Those are some very bold statements. Have you already tested your bridge theory?

Coming from a team that has been Wide Base more often than not, I've learned that controlling a wide base robot on a field with terrain without tipping over is a considerable challenge. According to one of our mentors, our Aim High robot was driven very carefully (on a field with no terrain besides the ramp) to avoid tipping. Rapid acceleration and deceleration while driving a wide base robot is a recipe for disaster. Drivers used to a standard drop center 6 wheel drive will find that driving wide base is quite different than what they're used to. It obviously can be done, but it's just tougher.

Despite the drawbacks, wide bases do have certain advantages that might be pivotal. The increased area for an accumulator allows drivers a lot more leeway during pickup, regardless of ball control. I can see this reason, coupled with the attractiveness of having a smaller profile on the bridge, driving many teams to build wide base robots; however, I'm expecting that the disparity between Elimination-worthy wide and long bases will favor the latter, due to more teams sticking with what they're comfortable with.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

My team was initially favoring a wide base over a long base, for the reasons mentioned above. This changed when our prototype shooter bot almost tipped backwards when I lifted its front wheels onto the barrier. Our current design is now a long base with a hybrid mecanum/traction drive to aid in climbing the barrier.

I think that teams are underestimating the difficulty of crossing the barrier. It will be very difficult or impossible to do with 8 inch wheels or smaller, unless you have a way to change your wheel's initial contact point on the barrier. The necessity of large wheels or other chassis shenanigans will reduce the length of the wheelbase and make a wide configuration less advantageous.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Our team was wondering if we could climb over the bump/barrier with 6 8" wheels. We were thinking of making a robot that is slightly wide, maybe 28 x 32. In that case we would have some of the advantages of a wide chassis (and would fit on the bridge better), but hopefully it wouldn't be as tippy as a robot that was, say, 28 x 38. Of course, 8" wheels may not be able to get over the barrier, and that will become a big issue for a lot of teams as the build season goes by. If 8" wheels don't work we may have to try something weirder, like 8 6" wheels or something.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

The reason a wide robot is tippy is because it's only 28" long (maximum), not because it is wide. With 8" wheels you have a 20" long wheelbase maximum, probably considerably less since you probably need some frame to be outside the wheels. It's the short wheelbase that is the issue.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Not unless you use a 20 inch wheel. ;)

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Well, longways seems to be much easier to control, especially over the bump. If you want the best of both, you could go with a mechanum drive, if you don't mind being pushed around.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Our team is still debating the issue. One of the advantages that hasn't been mentioned is that a wide robot can pivot better than a narrow one. It might make things easier for fine-tuning your aim.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Just make a long robot with mecanum drive so you can get on the ramp the head on way during qualifications and then sideways during finals.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

The Dean Kamen segway wheelchair (Don't know the actual name off hand) would be ideal for this game

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

As I type this, my team is testing a wide chassis prototype. I just watched the thing fly a full 4-5 inches into the air after hitting the hump. Besides for that, it is very unstable and top-heavy. We are all leaning towards the fact that the narrow chassis is a much better choice.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

How far off the ground was your shooter and how heavy was it?
Bruce

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

But imagine trying to go up the bridge with mechanums. Near the end of a game, battery voltages usually prevent strafing form being all that great. I know from experience that at the end of a match our strafing capabilities would just be reduced to terrible sideways turning capabilities.

If it was hard to strafe on level ground with mechanums during end game last year, imagine strafing up a 17 degree incline with an EXTREMELY low coefficient of friction.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

That's assuming your the first one on the bridge and you'll have room.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

Also being discussed in this thread which came after this one started.

Re: Long vs. Wide Drivebase
 

There would only be room if that robot was very narrow. After bumpers a fully sized robot only can turn maybe a few degrees, certainly less than the room needed to rotate.