Chief Delphi - 2012 Team Update #1

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - 2012 Team Update #1 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99737)

Hallry

10-01-2012 17:28

2012 Team Update #1

The 2012 Team Update #1 has been released: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/TeamUpdates/0

The main changes are that a robot must be FULLY supported by a bridge to receieve the bonus points, and that robots cannot push/react against the top of the fender. It also defined the term 'frame perimeter.'

Quote:

The Robot must have a Frame Perimeter that is comprised of fixed, non-articulated structural elements of the Robot. The Frame Perimeter of a Robot is defined by the outer-most set of exterior vertices on the Robot that are within the Bumper Zone, which is between 2 and 10 in. from the floor. Minor protrusions no greater than ¼ in. such as bolt heads, fastener ends, and rivets are not considered part of the Frame Perimeter.

To determine the Frame Perimeter, wrap a piece of string around the Robot at the level described in [R02]. The string describes this polygon.

Note: to permit a simplified definition of the Frame Perimeter and encourage a tight, robust connection between the Bumpers and the Frame Perimeter, minor protrusions such as bolt heads, fastener ends, rivets, etc are excluded from the determination of the Frame Perimeter.

Good luck, and have fun.

AlexD744

10-01-2012 17:40

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Kinda figured they would say this.

Steven Donow

10-01-2012 17:43

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Pretty much expected stuff, nothing too game-changing besides the "fully supported" rule.

Also, as a reminder, I believe Q&A opens up tomorrow, right?

missledojer217

10-01-2012 17:43

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

yay me to :(

cgmv123

10-01-2012 17:44

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

I can't print out a nice double-sided PDF for my binder like last year. :( Anyone know where to find it?

Zuelu562

10-01-2012 17:49

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Honestly disappointed that the "G28, G44 and G45" interaction hasn't been clarified yet, which tells me either that the interaction is intended (which I highly disagree with) or the GDC hasn't noticed that the way the three rules interact is ambiguous. Hopefully when Q&A opens there will be a flood of questions about this.

Ether

10-01-2012 18:02

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...38&postcount=2

SenorZ

10-01-2012 20:49

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Uh, FIRST Choice pneumatics aren't allowed?!

RufflesRidge

10-01-2012 20:51

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorZ (Post 1102022)

Uh, FIRST Choice pneumatics aren't allowed?!

See R10 for the definition of "Kit of Parts"

Duke461

10-01-2012 21:36

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

When they say fully supported, does that mean the robot can only be in contact with the bridge, or are they saying that the robot can't be hanging off the bridge (regardless of whether or not it's only touching the bridge)?

In other words, am I still balanced if a bit of my robot is hanging off the bridge but still not touching anything else?

Ninja_Bait

10-01-2012 21:40

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

If the only thing the robot is touching is the bridge, what's holding all the weight? Hint: It's not the column of air below it.

The robot is fully supported by the bridge in this case.

tlivingd

10-01-2012 21:46

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1101842)

I can't print out a nice double-sided PDF for my binder like last year. :( Anyone know where to find it?

Found an intresting url change. I think it's what you are looking for.
If you use the normal link of http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/30 for section one of the manual but take off the /viewitem/30
so you're left with frc-manual.usfirst.org

Then click on 'GAME' . You'll have the ability to click on 'save as pdf' in the top right corner. This will be the complete manual instead of downloading and printing every section separately.

enjoy
-nate

Tetraman

10-01-2012 21:52

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

So no more Robot-on-robot end game designs? Darn.

Oh well. Strike out Plans B though G. Time for Plan H.

speedbuggy76

10-01-2012 22:02

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetraman (Post 1102087)

So no more Robot-on-robot end game designs? Darn.

Oh well. Strike out Plans B though G. Time for Plan H.

Hmm, I thought this clarification was to avoid robots from dropping down a support beam to the ground at one end of the bridge. I don't think it would eliminate robot-on-robot designs, since the bridge is still supporting the weight of both robots.

cgmv123

10-01-2012 22:07

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlivingd (Post 1102082)

I meant just the update. Last year's updates were in PDF form that I could print out and put in my binder with the manual.

Tristan Lall

10-01-2012 22:07

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedbuggy76 (Post 1102103)

They missed that clarification in the update. Ask on the Q&A for a definition of "fully supported".

mwtidd

10-01-2012 22:29

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is within 5° of horizontal and any Robots touching it are fully supported by it.

Is it just me or does this rule imply that as long as you are touching the bridge and it is within 5°, you are fully supported by it?

So drive up and drop an arm on it and technically you're fully supported...

For me this clarification just made the rule more unclear.

dsalvucci

10-01-2012 22:33

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Does the fixed frame perimeter eliminate the possibility of an Archimedes Screw type of ball collection where the ball would enter the system by driving over it? I cannot really decide, but a fixed frame perimeter with ground clearance of 2-10 inches seems to make that impossible now.

Christopher149

10-01-2012 22:34

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is 1) within 5° of horizontal and 2) any Robots touching it are fully supported by it.

or

A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is (within 5° of horizontal and any Robots touching it are fully supported by it).

The English breaks the other way.

372 lives on

10-01-2012 23:28

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineskier (Post 1102130)

Quote:

A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is within 5° of horizontal and any Robots touching it are fully supported by it.

yeah I agree... I read this for the first time and I was like wait wut?.....
less pronouns please GDC?

mwtidd

11-01-2012 00:09

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher149 (Post 1102138)

I think it should probably be rephrased "any Robot touching the Bridge must be fully supported by it"

s_forbes

11-01-2012 00:42

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Is it just me or did robots on the bridge during end game just become worth a whole lot more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickoff manual, G40

When the final score is assessed per [G37], a Balanced Alliance Bridge, per Section 2.2.5, earn points as follows:

Quote:

Originally Posted by update 1, G40

When the final score is assessed per [G37], Robots completely supported by a Balanced Alliance Bridge, per Section 2.2.5, earn points as follows:

#robots, qualification, elimination
1 10 10
2 20 20
3 20 40

Nuttyman54

11-01-2012 00:46

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 1102290)

Is it just me or did robots on the bridge during end game just become worth a whole lot more?

I think so, although I don't think that's what they intended. I does very clearly say the robots are the ones getting the points now, not the bridge. There are some other issues associated with the new wording as well, in regards to how [G25] is assessed.

AllenGregoryIV

11-01-2012 05:30

Re: 2012 Team Update #1

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1102108)

I meant just the update. Last year's updates were in PDF form that I could print out and put in my binder with the manual.

I brought this up when they demoed the new manual format. This format just doesn't look professional enough. I was glad they released the PDF versions of the rules but they need to release them for every update as well.

Here's the thread on the FIRST Forums http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=18306

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:07.