Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

Not knowing much about this situation, I can't say for sure what their framerate was on and off the field, but if they used the default dashboard and the M1011, then the framerate would have been single digits to start with.

The default dashboard, along with the cRIO camera communications moved from SW timed requests of individual JPEGs to HW camera timed MJPG stream this year once it was discovered that the M1011 had poor performance with the JPEG route. Both options are still in the LV palette, but the default is now MJPG. The initial decision was somewhat arbitrary, and C and therefore Java, were already using MJPGs. Depending on the setup, other factors could have played a part. It is easy to chalk it up to the "field", but I have never witnessed this and it doesn't feel like the actual culprit.

As mentioned, it is somewhat difficult to simulate a match in your shop, but on the network you have, you can look at utilization and latency. You can look at how/if it changes when a second robot is added. You can also do some back-of-envelope calculations to see how much of the N speed network you are using.

My final advice is to look at the elements being measured and use those requirements to determine the rates and resolutions needed, as well as the appropriate sensor to use.

Due to slow speeds (30 Hz) max, somewhat high latency (>60ms, often 150ms), and variable jitter, cameras are not necessarily a good sensor to close a loop with. It is far better to calculate where the target is and use an encoder or pot to turn the turret. If the robot is to be turned, use a gyro. More CPU does little to improve the numbers. Higher speed cameras exist, but they are not in the kit, their cost is pretty high, and it may be difficult to integrate them.

I think the camera is a very valuable sensor, but it all depends on how it is used.

To the original topic, the laptop allows you to bring more CPU to the table, to process images more thoroughly, at a higher resolution, and perhaps at a faster rate. Once you have an algorithm that demands more CPU, this seems like a good step. Until then, ...

Greg McKaskle

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

All right, so, I have gotten a ton of really helpful information, now what I would like is some help figuring out how I should put it all together.
Here is what I am hoping to do, in its entirety:

Use the camera on the robot to find the vision target,

Export images from the camera to either our driverstation computer or a laptop mounted on the robot,

Use the NI-Vision software to find where the rectangles are,

Take the rectangles found by the NI-Vision software and calculate the distance from and angle off of perpendicular with the backboards,

Using these distances and angles, which will be updated throughout the course of the robots movement, calculate how our joystick would need to be moved in order to move our robot with a short range shooter up to the backboards,

And finally, send these theoretical joystick controls back to the cRIO and use them to move the robot to where it needs to go.

I am starting to get how to get the images from the camera, I can theoretically do the calculations on the angles and movement required, but what I still need to figure out is how to create the virtual joystick and then how to send the virtual joystick controls to the robot, as well as how to make the program I write run on whatever computer I decide it needs to run on.

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

So can you do processing on the robot with a laptop as long as you don't control the robot or can't you?

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

Currently the rules make it look like you can do the processing on a laptop that is mounted on the robot as long as it doesn't directly control the robot, however, we are not fully sure on this as of right now. Q+A qestion perhaps?

Re: How to run vision processing code on classmate during matches?
 

During the course of the rest of today, I got a fair amount of work done on figuring out how do deal with the positioning calculations, but I am still having a bunch of trouble figuring out how to both actually run the code that gets written, as well as how I will want to send the processed data back to the robot.

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

I'm looking for the exact same information. We are using Java on our robot, and are trying to decide which is best - using the cRio to do the image processing, or the drivers station laptop. We had been assuming the laptop, but I'm having a hard time finding the info regarding how exactly you communicate information from Labview back to the Java code running on the robot. Do you customize the driver station software to do the image processing and send it through the packets there? Or do you do a completely standalone Labview application and communicate via TCPIP somehow?
I'm starting to lean back towards doing it all on the cRIO to avoid that whole issue, but then I'm not sure if I can take advantage of the NI Vision Assistant modeling information.....
So many questions....thanks in advance for any additional guidance!

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

So, I was running the vision assistant software, and when I told it to acquire an image, it asked me for the NI-IMAQdx driver which I should download from the NI image acquisition software, just something to keep an eye out for when any other teams are working on setting something like this up.

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

I believe IMAQdx is used for some of the other camera types, but the bottom Axis camera plugin should be independent of it. They are somewhat comparable, but the bottom one has more config options.

Greg McKaskle

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

Greg, you mentioned "the bottom Axis camera plugin". Is that some plugin that I should be seeing in Vision Assistant to be able to access the Axis camera directly? If so, I'm not seeing it. Any help would be appreciated.
Dale

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

I am not seeing a acquire from axis camera button either, my options are acquire image:
standard camera
from IEEE 1394, Gigabit ethernet, USB, or IP camera
smart camera
or RT camera.
all of these options required the IMAQdx driver, which i downloaded along with the NI vision acquisition software

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

After the cameras you list, there should be a Simulate Acquisition, and then an Axis IP item. You may need to use the scrollbar. Mine looks like the image I attached, and thin only ones that aren't grayed out are the simulate and Axis.

Greg McKaskle

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

Mine also has the simulate acquisition button, however, there is no acquire axis IP button for some reason. Part of it may have been that when I installed everything from the NI software USB drive for some reason it didn't install the driver station software, which I thought I had told it to install. This issue also happened on one of my teammate's laptop as well.

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

That may be. The Axis is a plug-in. Do other people have it?

Greg McKaskle

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

I noticed this (DS missing) as well. but the update took care of that. Perhaps some of the NI Vision stuff also requires the update?

Re: How to run vison processing code on classmate during matches?
 

Which update is this? My software doesn't attempt to update when I run it, and currently, we can't find our team NI software installer USB.