Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

One thing that we will be looking for on Thursday is if teams' Jaguars are set to brake or coast. If they're set to coast, falling off the bridge becomes more likely. We're pretty confident that even if robots are set to brake, we can still push them up a ramp.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

Personally, I feel that it is in the best interest of both Alliances to ALWAYS go for the Coop Bridge. If you look at a lot of the week 1 events the teams that had the most Coop Points were ranked #1. It was very common at Kettering to go for the Coopertition Bridge at 1 min with the best bots from each alliance.

Going for your alliance bridge could get you the win but so can a last second shot by a human player or performing a 1-bot balance on the alliance bridge instead of a 2-bot.

-Clinton-

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

A problem I saw during week 1 was that too many teams had this mindset and also where the main scorer on their alliance while saying they wanted to be the team that goes on the coopertition bridge. When two good teams played each other this resulted in coopertition bridge just not being allotted nearly enough time. The thing I like about FIRST and particularly this game is that you can't do absolutely everything, at some point you have to give even the worst of other robots their role in your alliance. The teams that say they are going to do everything are getting nothing done as a result in this game.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

When we got an answer like this, we moved on to the next team in the alliance. We were usually the team that set up the bridge, so we took an extra couple seconds compared to our counterpart on the other alliance.

We set up the bridge for another team, and watched as they used the time to shoot in two extra game-winning three pointers, while we sat there and waited for them. We felt pretty taken advantage of, and from that point on, anything short of a definitive, emphatic "YES!" was considered a no.

I see it this way: if its close enough that not balancing might win it, I would still co-op balance. Either way, I get two points, though if I balance, I leave another team with a favorable view of me. If I leave that same team hanging, and beat them while they're holding the bridge for me, I leave them with an unfavorable view of me. If I'm getting beat by this team, I suspect they'll be more likely to be in a picking position than I am. If thats the case, I definitely want to be in their good graces.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

I think that a big problen in this game is that teams only resond to a statement like that if it is coming from the 217s and 1114s. Teams don't realize that the best teams are watching and notice these things.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

Since I like writing things in bullet points today:

- Figure out where your team is in in "the rotation"; knowing whether you compete before or after your seeding rivals will drive some of your coopertition balance strategy.

- Opting to try a coopertition balance in early rounds is a risk because you don't know what your opponents can or cannot do well. You may lose the match because they score better than you'd expected or you may fail to balance because it's harder than you expected; or both.

- Be a trendsetter. If your team is the first to attempt and succeed at a coopertition balance, you force all of your seeding rivals to attempt it as well in order to keep up.

- Your robot needs to be able to balance a bridge with two robots on with almost NO action from the other team. If you can't do this, you're in trouble.

In Texas, we were only refused a coopertition balance in only one match -- and in that match, by all of the teams we approached. It was the right call for them, so I don't begrudge them doing so at all. I was impressed by it, actually, as it showed a keen awareness of how the tournament is played that we don't often see.

We always approached the team that we thought was most likely to succeed with the balance. I made clear that our expectation was that we were making an agreement with that team and that we would not balance with their teammates unless there was some sort of mitigating circumstance that prevented them from balancing.

I'll admit that the schedule in San Antonio made it so there was very little risk for us to attempt coopertition balancing as many times as we could. I can see how, though, a different schedule might've made the decision for the teams involved a bit more nuanced.

I wonder if the GDC or FIRST HQ is cognizant of the distrust this element of the game creates among competitors, though. It sure doesn't seem like it's working out entirely as they expected.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

So after watching several matches from week 1 (it was the first time we did not compete week 1 in a very, very long time) I have not really changed my opinion of how I will feel about a team who does not cooperate with us. However, the reason I have the same feeling has completely changed.

If you look at the numbers, in almost all cases, you have to be completely ignorant of how this game works if you do not agree to do the coop bridge. If you went 0-X at every event, except KC, but did the coop bridge every match then you would have made the top 8. That is a huge statistic.

In this game, there is really only one bad scenario: not getting any QPs at all.

So 217 won't blacklist you because you made us angry. We will blacklist you because you are ignorant.*;)


* - There are very rare cases where it is strategically to your advantage to not do the coop. In these rare cases we will respect you strategically and probably not black list you, but no gaurantees

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

This cannot be emphasized enough!
Why were there not more of these occurrences is beyond me, regardless if its a week 1 event.
If teams demonstrate they can balance 1,2 or 3 robots on their bridge, especially during eliminations, they certainly could have done it during qualifications.
If my opponent(s) dont want to cooperate, that's fine.
Good luck when we play against you during eliminations.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

During the Greater Kansas City regional most teams would talk to the opposing alliance as they were queuing. We would figure out who would we should co-op bridge with and at what time they wanted to meet there. This allowed us to have enough time to get on the bridge and adjust till we got it balanced.

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

This whole thread is beginning to gel as a must-read for my team. I hope I can get them to do that.

Arranging to co-op balance with one member of an opposing alliance leaves the other two opponents with no co-op activity of their own. I think this means that it will be frustrating to negotiate co-op activity with an opposing alliance that has not yet decided among themselves what they are going to do in a given match. Take this back a step, and your alliance for a match has to decide what you want to do before any of you discuss what your alliance wants your opponents to do. So your first question for someone approaching you about co-op balance seems to be "is this your alliance's decision?" The implication being you cannot put much faith in a unilateral negotiation.

It is also becoming obvious that a detailed and complex checklist is going to be required for a team's and an alliance's pre-match activities. Like other checklists, this will help prevent leaving out crucial things while under pressure. New thread? or here?

Re: What is your cooperition bridge plan?
 

I'm afraid that I have to disagree. My alliance could tell my team that they had to do something inappropriate. That doesn't mean that we will do it.

We have numerous strategies. All but one allows us to support the cooperation bridge. We'll use the one that best supports the alliance's strategy but doesn't hurt us. In almost every situation, not having someone from our alliance on the cooperation bridge hurts us. So if that is what the alliance dictates, then they've got a surprise coming...

So my disagreement is this, when my team makes a contract, it holds water. Unilateral or not...