[SirTasty]

Lots of replies, I'm glad to see all the feedback! Just a few comments for folks here.

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

This is a very interesting strategic analysis. I agree with most parts but some are up for discussion I think. Looking at some of your underlaying principles...

1. Focusing on defense is an INFERIOR strategy

This is true to an extent, but I really REALLY don't agree with the logic behind "If we can't play offense well we can always play defense" I know that if I designed a robot to play defense it will do it better then your offensive robot that "can" play defense. Look at this thread.. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=89352

That robot has a great chance to shut down any great offense robot. I don't think you can say that focusing on defense is inferior, if you design a robot to play defense and you prevent your offensive juggernaut from even getting to the scoring rack who has the better strategy?

I saw that thread and I was impressed by the innovation in 3553's strategy, but as Gregory pointed out, the longest they can be is eight feet long. The alliance zone is eighteen feet wide. Even two of these robots won't be able to block the entire zone, and in any case I think we'll have the power to push past them, or push them into our alliance zone. I just don't think that robot will be as viable as it looks at first glance, and I don't think any defensive robot can completely stop a strong offensive team.

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

2. One minibot will not perform significantly better or worse than another

I think you will be surprised at competition. I think there will be several average minibots that don't perform significantly better then the others, but there will be one or two that blows everyone else away. This remains to be seen.

I just don't see how this could be done under the current minibot rules. Perhaps there's something I missed; I guess we'll find out at regionals.

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

3. Teams have the greatest opportunity to affect the outcome of the match if they focus on hanging game pieces.

This is another tough call IMO. I think a great defensive robot, or better yet a defensive ALLIANCE that completely barricades the scoring zone for the opposing alliance but has 2 amazing minibots can eliminate your offensive alliance without scoring a single tube.

Even two defensive robots cannot completely barricade the scoring zone, and three defensive robots would never score themselves. Even as the game reaches the finale, the offensive team is between the defensive team and their towers (and thus, their winning minibot strategy)..

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

I think there will be teams playing a lot of defense at regionals that will give the pure scorers a run for their money. I just watched about 10 match videos from 2007, unless teams across the board improve their manipulators, a couple good hits from an opposing alliance robot would cause the robot to drop their tube. Make a team drop their tube enough and they will realize it's easier to stop another team from scoring a tube then it is for them to score one themselves. By Saturday more teams are playing defense and it's getting harder to score.

Keep in mind that during the most fragile part of the process, the actual act of hanging the tube, the robot is protected from all robot impact.

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Why not put this into papers section?

Because I am a noob.

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

This was a very good analysis but I will say that my team came to several different conclusions.

Through, not Around?
One thing I see is that you didn't mention your actual gearbox. You are planning on having power and speed but don't mention if you are planning on having a 6 motor 2-speed drive train or just 4 CIMs geared to a reasonable 10ft per sec (or something along those lines). The latter will not allow you push the most powerful robots and it also won't let you get back and forth across the field faster than the fastest robots.

I find it interesting that a lot of teams seem to be going for the go through not around strategy. It is still not clear how long a defender has to get them self out of your zone after they have been pushed in. What if they flip over while being pushed and now you can't score on that side the rest of the match? I also think you have to be cautious of getting pinning calls against you if you are trying to push through someone that happens to be touching a lane divider or a tower.

We have four CIMs in two SuperShifters driving our wheels, we should be able to shift to high gear when we need to move, low when we need to push. We're also not too worried about flipping robots in our zone. Defensive robots tend to be built low.

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Every second is going to count when hanging tubes; going from 20sec a tube to 15sec a tube is 2 more tubes a match, not counting minibot time. So having to drive through someone that is slowing you down is going to take precious time away from actually scoring tubes.

For these reasons, I think teams that are building for the go around not through strategy will have success this year. (Teams that can do both, i.e. swerve drive, will fair even better). Even if you don't have a powerful drive train the field elements become your friend, running to them makes it so no other robot can touch you without starting a pinning count.

Going around takes much longer than going through.

<snip>

[quote=AllenGregoryIV;1003470]
Defense
I agree with you about not designing for defense. Defense is going to be harder than people think this year. The longest any defender can be is 7 feet. The zone is 18 feet wide. If two offensive robots are trying to score one of them just has to set a pick for the other and you can easily both get into your zone and be safe. (Yes if three robots are all defending a zone it will be impossible to score, they better keep that up for the entire match including the MINIBOT race, because otherwise you have two robots who have had more time to setup for the race and one that is capping an ubertube for 6 more points)
[quote]

That's a very succinct way of putting it and I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You went from point A to point C without venturing through point B.

You analyzed the game and came up with some very basic ideas of what features are important and how they might impact your chances of winning. But you never focused on how to win. That is an essential step in building a winning strategy, both for an alliance and for your robot. Specifically, how your robot fits into an alliance.

This doesn't automatically mean the conclusions you reached are wrong, though.

I don't see the hole here. How to win: score more points than the other guys. How to do that: stop the other guys from scoring, or score more. Since our first principle was "defense is inferior," it follows directly that our strategy is "score more." There are two ways of doing that: hanging or minibot. Since we don't expect minibots to be an aspect of the game that can be easily affected, it only follows that we must hang. Since we don't think the bottom row is important, we must hang on the top rows. That seems like a pretty good strategy, but this is the first year I've been deeply involved in strategy. Could you elaborate on where you see my error?

Originally Posted by mathking

I like the thoroughness of the overall assessment. From all of the discussion here on CD, one thing has really jumped out at me this year. Everyone seems to be decrying scoring low as a decent option, but I think that those who are doing this are not thinking about reliability and speed.

Consider:
A logo across the bottom row is worth 6 points, the same as two pieces across the top. If you assume a 1 in 3 rate of dropped tubes (and I will bet it will be higher than that for many teams) and a reasonable time difference for the drop - pick up off the floor - rehang operation between robots hanging low and robots hanging high, all of sudden the difference in expected values narrows considerably.

I still agree that hanging on the top row is vital to be a top team, but I also think that teams should not ignore the bottom.

Not so. TWO logos across the bottom row are worth twelve points. ONE logo across the top row is worth eighteen! Add an ubertube to that for even more fun. So, really you're looking at bottom hangers needing to hang twice as much in the same time in order to equalize. Top hangers have plenty of wiggle room inside their alliance zone.

regarding floor pickup: I am surprised at how many people are emphasizing floor pickup here. I am inclined to bow to your experience here.