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Unread 22-01-2011, 03:40
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
@JohnVNeun
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,159
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Re: pic: Final 2011 Drivetrain

Wow. I don't know if this is a joke, in which case I just wasted my time typing up the following post. In the rare event that it isn't a joke, I'll describe some motor loading for you. If nothing else this post is a good summary of what goes on when a robot accelerates (or catches fire, whichever comes first).

Short version:
If you build this thing, it won't work at all. My spreadsheet should have some kind of "are you serious?" warning built into it...

Please review this presentation immediately:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2429

JVN's "in a nutshell" description of motor loading and acceleration:
Motors have limited power, this means for a given amount of load they can only move so fast. The less load they have on them, the faster they move. At some load they won't move at all (stall), and at no load they have a maximum speed they spin at (free speed). They draw current from the battery depending on how high the applied load is. If the current drawn is too high, the breakers will trip (or the motors will catch fire, whichever comes first).

When a robot is accelerating, at the instant it starts moving, it isn't moving -- the motors output their stall torque. Drivetrains typically increase this torque with a speed reducer/torque increase geartrain. This torque is then applied on the ground as a force which is used to accelerate the robot. As the robot accelerates the robot starts moving which means the motor spins faster which means the torque output decreases (the motors speed & torque are linear, remember?). So why does this matter?

With CIM motors, the stall current is much higher than the capacity of the 40amp circuit breakers. If you try to accelerate with too little gear reduction (i.e. the drive is too fast) or with NO gear reduction as you show, the output force of the wheel on the ground will cause the robot to accelerate very slowly. If this acceleration is too slow, the motor will be very high on the torque curve for a long period of time, which means it will be drawing lots of current for a long period of time, which means it will catch fire (or pop the breakers, whichever comes first).

The moral of the story... your robot would take approximately the length of an airfield to accelerate to top speed, which it never would because it would pop the breakers or catch fire (whichever comes first).

Ohh... not to mention that if you ever try to get into a pushing match the wheels act as brakes on the motor and if your gearing doesn't reduce the torque load enough it will also cause the motor to draw too much current and cause the robot to catch fire or pop the breakers (whichever comes first).

Ohh... not to mention that you have traction wheels opposed at 90-degrees from each other. So in order for the robot to move in any given direction it needs to slide a set of high traction wheels sideways across the carpet... which of course it needs torque to do, but since it has no gearing it will probably just catch fire, or pop the breakers (whichever comes first).

Physics is such a pain in the butt when it gets in the way of innovation, isn't it? I guess true innovation is when you can actually harness physics to do what you want. Heck -- that sounds suspiciously like engineering.

-John

PS - Expert tip: robots work much better if they are 9-sided. 100% of 9-sided robots have won World Championships. Add an extra side, quick! True story.
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In the interest of full disclosure: I work for VEX Robotics a subsidiary of Innovation First International (IFI) Crown Supplier & Proud Supporter of FIRST
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