[Jaine Perotti]

Originally Posted by Molten

My point isn't that we are suffering equally by it. My point is that your just adding more differences. Your widening the gap of equal treatment between men and women. Whether it is for one gender's benefit or the other, sexism is sexism. You can't both fight it while promoting it.
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If you were to stamp out all sexism and racism in the world except for women only and minority only teams/scholarships/organizations/whatever, sexism and racism would still exist because these organizations exist.

Running an all-girls team is not sexism. Sexism is the institutionalized (i.e. widespread and prevalent throughout all aspects of our culture) favoring of one gender over another. When looking at the existence of girls-only teams in the wider context of a society which overhwelmingly favors men in STEM fields, they don't do any real harm to men (in a general sense at least*). If sexism ever truly ends someday, there will be no need to have any more all-girl teams... they will simply cease to exist. Your contention that they would linger solely to oppress men is ridiculous. I highly doubt that the people running the all-girls teams are secretly plotting to marginalize all men once women are no longer culturally disadvantaged... in fact, many of the people running those teams are men themselves.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to help girls out. I'm just suggesting that you might be better off having after-school activities that promote learning how to use power-tools to all kids from a younger age. If you want, make it mother-daughter nights and father-son nights. Do the same with cooking and other things guys generally avoid. This issue really should be dealt with at the youngest age possible before the child is completely set in their sexist ways.

These are all fine suggestions, there is nothing wrong with them. But I still don't see any harm in girls-only teams. The many positive testimonies in this thread clearly show that they are a powerful tool for bringing more women into STEM fields.

I really don't see this as a means of convincing at all. I mean, I've seen alot of successful people of minorities and none of them have made those around them believe that equal treatment is necessary.
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This one I'm just going to admit I'm confused. How is showing successful women prove they are disadvantaged?
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Women who are successful are poor examples of the sexism because of their success. Instances of women who could do amazing things but were discouraged would be much more compelling.

I for one would feel pretty discouraged if the only news stories about women in STEM fields were about our failures and difficulties. I suppose they would garner some sympathy, but probably not in a good way... i.e. you would probably get a lot of Archie Bunker-esque responses like "oh, those poor, silly wimminz, what do they think they are doing trying to do manly things like math and science? Why do they worry their pretty little heads about trying to get ahead in careers which obviously weren't meant for them?"

On the other hand, seeing more and more positive stories about women making scientific and engineering breakthroughs would probably shock, maybe even change (and at the very least shut up) the Archie Bunkers of the world. It would also be testimony to the success of the programs and scholarships (such as all-girl FIRST teams!) dedicated to helping advance women in STEM. Even more importantly, it would serve as inspiration to the women out there like me who rarely get to hear about women's success in engineering. Trust me, it helps a lot to hear about the success stories of other women... just reading the responses of the other women in this thread has truly been a source of comfort and support for me. Not to say that we shouldn't talk about the problems we face at ALL (it's important to share those too), but I believe it's equally important to share our victories as well as our defeats.

On this one I think you missed my point completely. I'm also not suggesting that the world is perfect on this matter. Sometimes things go unnoticed, but if a worker is discriminating...eventually it will catch up with them. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but at some point there will be repercussions.

You are still living in a dream world, my friend. Trust those who have actually had real-world experience trying to contend with discrimination.

--Jaine

*I'm not saying that they can NEVER hurt men... obviously it would be unfair if there was an all-girls team in a region where there were no other alternative tech-related activities for the boys to participate in... on the other hand, it's not like anyone would be actively stopping someone from starting their own co-ed team in such a region if they wanted one.