[IKE]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

Our team is using one of those lamp switches that have a pushbutton that has an on position and an off position (ie, you push it once and it's on, push it again and it's off. I can't find the link right now.) I don't know how you're using the other switch, but this is great because it not only turns off the bot completely, it's very robust - it's an all-metal assembly, and it passed inspection at UTC.

I actually posted the picture of that switch up on CD. It is a pretty good switch, but if you are running a really fast minibot beware that it could break after repated impacts.

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I am not a judge.... I am an inspector...
In court... judges can make this kind of determination...
policemen and inspectors only have the rules to abide by...
If you want to change the law... become a lawyer...
If you want to change how we live...become an engineer...

You calling me a lawyer? Thems Fighting Words!

Please define "marketed as" for me.

The motor has a part number and a source. This is considered a source controlled component. The battery also has a part nubmer and a source, and thus is a sourced controlled component. "Switches" are defined as items "marketed or sold as limit switches or light switches" se update 12 or http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=17169. As an engineer I have never come across as "marketed as" controlled drawing. I have seen functional specifications. I have seen source controls. I have seen part numbers. I have seen functional equivalence. I have never seen a "marketed as" specification before.

As a robot inspector, I did not receive training on what a "marketed as" component was. Its not in the manual, test, or Q&A. The Q&A did give us clues to what "marketed as" means. If the packaging has the right words, it is "marketed as"http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16722. If the KOP calls a micro-switch a limit-switch, then it is "marketed as". If a switch is sold in a store in the "light switches" section, it may or may not actually be a light switch (thank you Q&A). If I bought it on-line, then I am supposed to bring documentation. With said documentation, the Inspector has to judge whether or not my interpretation of "marketed as" meets their interpretation of "marketed as". There in lies the rub. The inspector is therefore no longer an officer, but a judge. As you have pointed out, this puts the inspector in the awkward position. This is usually just the LRI as the underling inspectors (I was one of those) defer judgement to the LRI (as they should).

My wife is a marketer. When she does a marketing campaign, she hands out fliers and posts signs. She makes sure the product is placed in a store in the section people would look for it. This is all within the realm of "marketing".

As a mentor, I read all the Q&A, I did not feel I was lawyering rules. When it said a light switch was the kind that mounted in boxes, we bought light switches that mounted in boxes. When it said that "light switch" was anything that was sold as a household light switch, I thought I was doing good buying a 3 amp 125V rated switches that can clearly be used to turn on a household light. When these were not allowed, we used limit switches. When the bot (which would make a 10 foot section of conduit jump out of its base on the practice field) did not trigger because "we can't prove it hit hard enough", we searched for a switch that had at least 5N of push force. We have now purchased approximately $100 of switches for the minibot. Many are too heavy to be competitive. Many do not have the required push force (even thoug they seem to work). Many are in a gray limbo of "hmmm not really comfortable calling those legal". because of this, we use the Tetrix switch and just keep buying more spares when they break. They are legal and light (though not too robust).

If you want to control which parts are legal, then do so (like the main robot motors). If you want to "open source" based on technical specs (like the new pneumatic rules), then do so. If you want to invent "marketed as" controlled components, then you need to define "marketed as", or be prepared for questions like mine.

The goal of a thread like this is to help change the "world" within FIRST of having silly rules like this where teams waste $100 buying wrong (or maybe wrong) switches.