Thread: WEEK 1
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Unread 05-03-2012, 05:39
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Re: WEEK 1

What I learned:
- As usual, Week 3 will be nothing like Week 1. I think this is exacerbated this year though, as originally teams had been very reluctant about defense given the number of safe zones. Even with two absolutely fantastic scorers (341 and 1218), shut-down defense let our alliance win by a wide margin in basically every elim match.
Stats:
- For all elimination matches combined, our alliance's average score difference was 49.2, all positive. This turns into 57.8 if you discount the QF in which 341 broke at the beginning--we won this by only 6 points. (They were up and running great next match without a timeout.) It drops to 44.3 if you ignore the (unsuccessful and I think unintentional) G25 red card our opposing alliance got in QF1-2 (their pre-card score was 29).
- For fender defense, the average score difference was 55 (47.8 without the red card, 71.3 without 341's breakdown, 61.7 without both). For the 2 QFs we played against an alliance of 2 dunkers, the average difference was 54.5 (adjusted 103, 40, 74 respectively). Actual scores were 41-47 (QF1-1) and 103-0 (QF1-2, pre-card 103 to 29).
- We also played fender defense in the semis against an alliance whose main offensive bot was a close scorer. This average score difference was 55.5, with nothing really out of the ordinary for which to adjust.
- We played what I like to call Inbounder Chicken in the Finals, blocking 2016's Inbounder throws and thereby hoarding balls on our scoring side and forcing 2016 (their long-range shooter) back to feed. (Also creates conditions for Key fouling, or Key-Ally mirror fouling which almost happened.) Based on the Finalist Alliances pre-finals teleop scores (average 15) as well as our alliance's same (average 30.7), blocking could have had a negative impact on the Finalists of approximately -6 and a positive impact on us of approximately +8.8, for a total differential difference of 15.2. Of course, there are also other factors, and granted we won by much more than 15 each match.
- I don't think Co-Op necessarily skews seeding too much, and this will likely decrease even more as teams get better at balancing. 341 and 1218 ranked 1st and 2nd whether sorted officially, by Teleop Points, by Teleop + Hybrid, by Teleop + Bridge, or by Teleop + Bridge + Hybrid. (Of course, they're also the 1st and 3rd OPRs in the country...) Overall it seemed that most strong teams realized the importance of Co-Op, and were ready to use it when beneficial (basically always).
Stats:
- In fact, at Horsham, sorting by TP+HP+BP versus sorting officially only produced a significant difference in 1 of the top 8 seeds, namely the 8th. 2234 would have been 30th, but had a CP of 8, matched only by 341.
- Overall, the rank difference averaged 7.7. 14 teams had a higher official ranking, 20 had lower, and 4 didn't move (seeds 1, 2, 3, and 29).
- There were two teams in the top 50% with 0 Coopertition Points: seed 5 and seed 12.
- Anecdontally, I actually found this to have a smaller impact than the minibot of last year. We ranked 2 of 56 (8-0-1) and won Philly that year when we would have ranked 18th (5-3-1) and probably not made it past quarterfinals without the minibot. Our estimated robot contribution was like 5. Of course, this is highly situational.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleboy View Post
Exaclty how are they [fenderbots] being defending? Preventing? Pushing?
In elims, we finished autonomous and raced (pre-agreed route) over the Barrier, down the Ally, and along the fender. We stuck to it (front and non-Ally side) basically the entire game. While shutting down two dunkers wasn't exactly easy, it was entirely doable and they even got in each other's way at the beginning. They scored 5 points total in Teleop the first match, and 6 the second match. Scoring from the side was equally blockable--no advantage there that I can see. You can't just sit there to block, but I didn't let my driver lose bumper contact with the fender until endgame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deetman View Post
From my viewpoint observing in the stands, the "quality" of the balls in play generally seemed to exhibit general wear and tear akin to what teams noticed during build season...

2018 (HH winning alliance, 2nd seed) had a unique system on their robot that measured the compression of the balls and adjusted their shooter accordingly.
Agreed. It seems the competition balls are actually more consistent in manufacturing quality than the ones we received in the Kit or FIRST Choice. However, they are this manufacturing style was also the minority of what we were given in the aforementioned. As far as wear and tear, the MAR field at Hatboro-Horsham was only given 36 balls total, but they still managed to remove basically any ball missing more than say 1/2in^3 of foam from one place. I was pretty impressed, actually. Mostly just scuff lines. We were given some of the decommissioned balls (the winning alliance can't cut nets at MAR, so they did this instead--thanks), and they do get very beat.

Yes, 1218 used the "charminator" (like terminator) to measure ball squishiness. As their OPR and Blue Banner can attest, they're a fantastic shooter because of it. 341 took a different tactic, putting huge (I mean huge) backspin on the balls so they fall basically straight down once they hit the backboard no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
David, a robot with the abilities you described has a certain niche imperative to winning this game: A feeder. If you could hold one to three balls, and then kick them back to your alliance's side, you effectively starve the opponents of balls to score with and feed your alliance. I know I'd want a feeder bot on my alliance, especially one that does the bridge well.
I have to say, watch out for this. Having just won an event spending all of Finals blocking an Inbounder and all of Semis blocking a short lower scorer, I'd warn that unless you're a high kicker this is pretty easy to defend. It'll be especially true in elims, but if you're good I'd expect defense to pick up in quals at later weeks as well.

Sheet 1 of the attached worksheet has the elimination match score differentials for the Hatboro-Horsham's winning alliance and the pre-finals teleop estimates for the Impact of Inbounder Chicken. Sheet 2 has the seeding differences with and without Coopertition.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Hatboro-Horsham Statistics.xlsx (27.6 KB, 13 views)
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