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Unread 17-04-2012, 00:25
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EricH EricH is offline
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FRC #1197 (Torbots)
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Re: Alliance Selection System

Quote:
Originally Posted by DampRobot View Post
This. I feel that #1 picking #2 almost always essentially eliminates all competition in eliminations. I know that ever alliance "has a chance," but against the two best teams at the regional, the chances are slim. This is one of the reasons I am in favor of disallowing the top 8 to pick each other.
Often... but not always. Often, especially this year, it works out that #1 gets beaten. Also see 177, 190, 987 in 2007. #8 alliance to World Champion.

Quote:
Here's the pickle about most alliance selection proposals: either the top two teams chose each other, and there is essentially no chance of anyone else winning, or the top two teams can't chose each other, and one strong team doesn't qualify for championships.
If the top two teams can't choose each other, how do you enforce it? This was tried back in 1999 or 2000, I'm not sure which. There were allegations of teams deliberately throwing matches to drop into the pickable area. There is no way to stop that, unless you like being thought police or placing rules that would make a politician wonder how crazy you were. If one powerhouse is first with a weak schedule coming up, and another is second, I'd probably figure on the other throwing a few matches. (This happened in 2010 at the Championship, with a 6v0 to advance seeding. Whether I agree with their strategy there is irrelevant--they played it to advance their position in standings.) How do you prevent that happening? You can't.


Let me put it this way: By seeding #1, the #1 seed has earned the right to pick whoever they want. By artificially restricting that pick list, you deny them a reward for seeding #1. Now who wants to seed #1? Continuing that line of thought, #2 has earned the right to pick whoever they want, or accept a #1 invitation. Clear down to #8. Clear to whoever ends up in the #8 spot. Any team can decline, too--that is their decision, and their right. There is the risk that they do not play if they decline, and that is their decision to make.

If I'm #1, and DampRobot comes up to me and says "Because I don't like you beating everyone, you can't pick the top 6 robots at the event because they're in the top 8", I'm not going to be happy. At offseasons that have this sort of rule, everyone knows going in that that's the rule, it's an offseason, we're here just to have fun. But when it's a berth at the World Championship potentially on the line, every team in the eliminations wants the best alliance they can be on. This is a competition, folks! (That doesn't mean that the real mission of FIRST should be ignored--but you've got to remember that this is the FIRST Robotics Competition.)
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2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

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Last edited by EricH : 17-04-2012 at 12:17.