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Unread 17-04-2012, 01:19
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DampRobot DampRobot is offline
Physics Major
AKA: Roger Romani
FRC #0100 (The Wildhats) and FRC#971 (Spartan Robotics)
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Re: Alliance Selection System

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
If the top two teams can't choose each other, how do you enforce it? This was tried back in 1999 or 2000, I'm not sure which. There were allegations of teams deliberately throwing matches to drop into the pickable area. There is no way to stop that, unless you like being thought police or placing rules that would make a politician wonder how crazy you were. If 1114 is first with a weak schedule coming up, and 2056 is second, I'd probably figure on 2056 throwing a few matches. (If it was 217, I'd be even more certain--see their move to create a 6v0 in 2010. Whether I agree with their strategy there is irrelevant--they played it to advance their position in standings.) How do you prevent that happening? You can't.


Let me put it this way: By seeding #1, the #1 seed has earned the right to pick whoever they want. By artificially restricting that pick list, you deny them a reward for seeding #1. Now who wants to seed #1? Continuing that line of thought, #2 has earned the right to pick whoever they want, or accept a #1 invitation. Clear down to #8. Clear to whoever ends up in the #8 spot. Any team can decline, too--that is their decision, and their right. There is the risk that they do not play if they decline, and that is their decision to make.

If I'm #1, and DampRobot comes up to me and says "Because I don't like you beating everyone, you can't pick the top 6 robots at the event because they're in the top 8", I'm not going to be happy. At offseasons that have this sort of rule, everyone knows going in that that's the rule, it's an offseason, we're here just to have fun. But when it's a berth at the World Championship potentially on the line, every team in the eliminations wants the best alliance they can be on. This is a competition, folks! (That doesn't mean that the real mission of FIRST should be ignored--but you've got to remember that this is the FIRST Robotics Competition.)
In FRC, as in all sports, there is always an option to cheat. Theoretically, you could say you finished your robot during build season, and just forge the signature on the bag and tag form. Teams could take parts off to get inspected, get declared underweight, and just add the parts back on. Budgets could be doctored to allow over-budget teams to appear under-budget. It's not impossible to cheat. There are just rules and systems in place which keep the vast majority of incidents from happening. But at some point, it is the team's decision if they want to obey the rules or not.

Under my proposal, of course it would be possible to cheat, and of course, it would be hard to catch the cheaters. I'm mainly envisioning a G26 type rule that would essentially say that purposefully placing out of the top 8 is "not in the spirit of FRC and disallowed." The purpose of the rule would not be to punish teams that attempt to place out of the top 8 strategically. It would instead clarify the intention of the GDC, and allow the team's decision do depend on the team's integrity.

To answer your question about the incentive to be #1, seeds 1-3 could be automatically offered spots at district or world championships, in addition to being able to chose from any of the 42 other teams first. There would still be an incentive to do well. Top teams would still get their well earned spot in St. Louis, and eliminations would be more competitive. I'm simply trying to propose a system that both allows dominant teams to go to championships, and creates more exciting and competitive elimination rounds.
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