Quote:
Originally Posted by techhelpbb
You know very well that I can't test a competition field environment without a competition field. So you're telling people that I should basically test something you are insuring can not be tested.
The point again, for all to read, is not that all issues are power quality issues. The point is that when you do have power quality issues you are effectively putting those teams at a disadvantage. I fully admit...again and again in this topic there are more problems than merely the power quality.
Note: this next part was posted before Al edited his post.
So far as this not being a real issue...you prove once again that Team 11 and other teams finding bad power supply components feeding the D-Link AP is not considered a real problem. It's not a real problem why? Perhaps because Team 11 and these other teams weren't on the Einstein field? Going to be hard to get to that field when our not so 'real' problems get in the way.
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Brian,
I suggest you look back and reread what I have said to you and to others. You believe your team obviously has a power issue but you refuse to perform the tests that would point to a power issue on your own robot. Do so and bring us the results. You do not need a competition field to do that (try using FMS Lite). Your robot remains a stand alone component that if power is an issue, it should show up that problem on your home field. If you find something that others have not, then and only then can FIRST actually decide to pursue an investigation using other methods. You must admit that what you are asking requires a rather large expense on First to accomplish. Bring valid data to support your claim and First can weigh your data against the need to expend further money and resources in the pursuit of a radio power supply issue.
As for myself and all other robot inspectors, we take our job very seriously. When we don the shirt and hat we take on
every team as our own, bar none. When they fail on the field, we fail. When they go home with a loss, so to do we. We feel strongly that the success of an event lies our in our hands and the happiness of the competitors is our highest measure of success. We cheer for everyone because that is what we are required to do in this competition. When we see something wrong we try to fix it or we find someone who can. We do this at every competition for every team, all weekend, without regard to team number or qualifying slot. Should an inspector or Lead not meet these goals, I want to know about it. Teams need to be able to trust and believe in the assistance of their inspectors. Our stated goal is to insure you play (within the rules) and not to prevent you from playing. I can tell you that robots not running is a common discussion topic during volunteer meals for inspectors. We pass along what we find so that all teams can fully participate.
As to your finding a bad power component at one of your competitions, that is a known issue with a very small number of regulators. (a very few have been found defective from the factory) When questioned, most often the root cause is a team wiring issue that was later corrected by the team. For the record, that can take the form of the input and output of the regulator being swapped, the input or the output wiring reversed, the input to the radio reversed, or some of the wiring not fully insulated and shorting to the frame. As to other issues with robot radio, we have found the use of the wrong size coaxial plug (either the inside socket or the outside barrel or both), a team fix on a broken plug, a broken wire internal to the cable due to stress or bending, improperly applied hot glue that forced the connector open or un-soldered the power jack. More than half (~100 this year) of the power problems we find is teams wiring the radio directly to an unregulated 12 volt output on the PD. Other issues include blocking all the cooling holes in the radio, using damaged ethernet cables or after having broken a connector hot gluing same into an ethernet output on the radio. Mounting the radio upside down against a metal plate or mounting the radio on top of 2 CIMs in a transmission are also common. And finally teams mounting the radio deep inside the robot to "protect" it from harm.
So to repeat for everyone's homework, if you suspect a power issue with your robot radio, test and document the conditions under which the link fails. i.e. a power supply droop, noise (how much and what frequency), radio reboot or not, disabling of certain inputs or outputs, do you have a camera and does it stop working, does the robot stop after auto or after a specific length of time coming out of auto, etc. Make your findings public or send them to me, so others can duplicate the problem.
As far as your last paragraph above, I never said this was a non-issue. I said, in my experience I have not found any evidence that the power supply issues (that you suggest are occurring) have caused link issues. So far you haven't shown any evidence of this either. Your team found a defective regulator that for you and me is a smoking gun in your robot. That is a known problem, stated multiple times over the past two years by me (and many others) in several posts here on CD and in the LRI forum for all inspectors. For the record any problem is an issue for me. If you have one, the chances of someone else having it are good. However, I can only pursue problems if you can tell me what it is and repeat it. If you were closer I most certainly would suggest I spend a Saturday at your facility pursuing this.