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Unread 04-02-2013, 08:04
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Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
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Re: 2013 running 2 - VI air compressors legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
We clearly don't see this as an issue of the same, or even similar magnitude. You continue to argue about how it constitutes a violation worthy of claiming a ROBOT wasn't inspected simply because its air system was pressurized by some other source, regardless of whether that source is substantially the same as the presently prescribed system or not.
Of course we don't agree, but every other team at your event expects, no demands, that every robot be inspected to the same standard so that they can be sure they are not competing against a team that has an advantage, of any kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
You just made the argument I've heard so many times, that it needs to be supplied by the ROBOT's battery, because everyone has those, and they have a limited supply of power, so that makes it the same for everyone.
I did not make that argument. The rules state the compressor must be controlled by the cRio and robot battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
The source of the 12VDC power that powers the compressor is irrelevant in any substantial way, since I can change my battery AFTER I've pressurized the system and before the MATCH. Whether I use a robot battery, a deep cycle marine battery, or a solar fusion reactor to power it changes nothing about the ROBOT as it sits in the ARENA at the start of a MATCH, with a fresh battery and a pressurized air system.
While the choice of power source is debatable, the cRio still needs to be powered by the robot battery and so does the control for the compressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
As for the rules you cited:

G03 doesn't apply, its not an unsafe design or operation.

G05 may apply, but it IS a quick remedy, opening the air valve remedies any perceived problem that charging from an external source created, so no DISABLED ROBOT or Re-inspection necessary.

And I suggest that T06 or T08 aren't even relevant to the discussion, as I never suggested more than one compressor.
Your telling me it is safe does not make it safe. I can assure you that inspectors find unsafe conditions on robots regularly at every event. While opening the relief valve can be a quick fix, why should the event staff, the refs or other teams be forced to endure this match after match.
T06 & T08 are extremely relevant and provide the basis for inspection and the remedy. If you use something on your robot during the competition, it must be inspected. If you use it without it being inspected, you are in fact, not inspected. The remedy is no points for each match you are scheduled for and a Red Card for the entire alliance if you enter the field and the match starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
For sake of argument, though, I don't believe that the intent of the "one and only one compressor" rule is to prevent me from having equally functional, and equally legal on their own off-board compressor panels (controlled and powered by the ROBOT, in accordance with R80), but rather, its intent is to say that you are only to have one compressor provide the air at any one time. Whether this time I use compressor A and next time I use compressor B doesn't particularly matter, otherwise, what happens when one breaks during a competition?
The intent of "one and only one" in no way can be interpreted to mean more than one. If your one compressor should fail, a spare may be installed and that also should be inspected. It is the reason the inspection staff is on duty all weekend.

To reiterate the procedures for everyone to understand, the LRI, Head Ref and FTA act as a group when something that will affect a team occurs. If the LRI finds that a team has an issue, he brings it to the Head Ref and FTA for discussion. If the Head Ref sees an unsafe or questionable part on a robot, he calls in the LRI and FTA if needed, for discussion. If the three key volunteers still cannot reach consensus, each of us has the phone contact info for higher authority. Each one of the key volunteers is tasked with keeping the event safe, operating within the rules of the tournament, for the enjoyment of all. We take that task very seriously.

The incident that Kevin related above occurred at the Midwest Regional in 2011. A team trying to find an air leak had bypassed the compressor control to keep the compressor running. The heat buildup caused a failure of the tubing and fitting at a brass junction. The failure sounded like a gunshot and any pieces were contained within the robot.
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Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
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Storming the Tower since 1996.

Last edited by Al Skierkiewicz : 04-02-2013 at 08:11.