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Unread 17-01-2014, 17:32
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
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AKA: Sean Lavery
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Re: Team Update 1-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Then it comes to the point of your opponent cannot cause you to get a penalty. If your opponent shoots/launches the ball, how long after the shot is the ball still considered in control by that opponent? If the ball is launched and it bounces 1x, 2x, 3x, etc. how long does it take for that to no longer be the resultant of that robot?

If a ball is shot by Robot-A and it bounces once and then lands in Robot-B, is there no penalty because Robot-A cannot cause Robot-B to get a penalty? How about 2 bounces? 3 bounces? No bounces? When does the safety valve get turned off to where Robot-B has to take responsibility?
For reference, here is rule <G14> and the blue box beneath rule <G12>. I have bolded portions that I find particularly relevant to this discussion.

Quote:
G14
Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of FRC and are not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in assessment of a penalty on the target ALLIANCE.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL
Quote:
Examples of BALL interaction that are not POSSESSION are

A. “bulldozing” (inadvertently coming in contact with BALLS that happen to be in the path of the ROBOT as it moves about the FIELD) and

B. “deflecting” (a single hit to or being hit by a BALL that bounces or rolls off the ROBOT).

A BALL that becomes unintentionally lodged on a ROBOT will be considered POSSESSED by the ROBOT. It is important to design your ROBOT so that it is impossible to inadvertently or intentionally POSSESS an opponent’s BALL.
While I am not a ref nor a member of the GDC, so my opinion carries no official weight, my interpretation of <G14> is that the actions of the offending team must be clearly intentional (in order to be classified as a "strategy") and provide the opponent with little or no alternatives to taking a penalty (in order to be classified as "forcing"). With that in mind, I would argue that Robot-A does not recieve a penalty in any of the scenarios you named, since it did not incorporate a strategy solely aimed at forcing Robot-B to take a penalty. Since Robot-A did not violate <G14>, Robot-B would then be assessed a <G12> penalty for (inadvertently) possessing an opponent's ball. Even if the ball did not bounce, I would argue the same thing, unless Robot-A took obvious action to aim towards Robot-B.
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