[EricH]

Originally Posted by aldaeron

I wanted to get some feedback from other folks here on CD about pinning because 3669 is essentially immobilized by 1619 the entire match.

From 1:00 to 1:08 3669 is clearly held in place against the goal and cannot move. I do not know why the counting for pinning was not initiated.

Are we watching the same movie? It's not clear at all to me that they're pinned against the goal. It looks instead like the blue robot (sorry, I can't ID the numbers) spent the entire time in a pushing match, not necessarily a case of being pinned. (A word to the wise: Getting in a pushing match is a lose-lose situation. Avoid them if at all possible.)

Some of the time I do believe is not pinning because 3669 pushes back. If 3669 had let themselves be pushed into the wall or goal I believe the pinning count should have started. If someone could clarify that would be helpful.

If they're NOT against the wall (or another robot), it's NOT a pin. If they'd let themselves be pushed into the wall, and the pin count had not started, you'd have had a pretty valid complaint to the head ref and the corner ref about no pinning call (the ref did appear to be watching, and he was a foul-calling ref).

Some could argue that at various times when 1619 backs up that 3669 chases, but in most of those cases, 3669 is going in the only direction it can go with a tank drive.

What about a spin? Tank drives do turn. But yes, there is a definite chase appearance. Thus, any pin counts are canceled.

When we talked to the refs after the match, they said that since it was not against a wall that it was not a pin.

And that is how the call is supposed to be made. If it isn't against a field element (in this game, goals and walls) or another robot, it's NOT a pin.

I believe that immobilizing a robot in the corner wall between the goal and alliance wall it is the same as “trapping” from G12 (i.e. two robots blocking access to an opposing ball in a corner but not touching it are essentially denying access to said ball).

No, it is NOT. Do not compare apples and oranges. Try "blockading" (G25)--but that applies to two robots working together, not to one. A robot that is merely trapped similar to how you think is not necessarily pinned--a field element or another robot is required.

If a robot can’t get out because driving the direction their wheels are pointed would be “chasing” then the pinning robot should still need to back up the required 6 feet IMO. [...]Since the refs did not start counting we will never know if 1619 would have backed off and the game would have gone differently.

Nope, that's not how it works. Just about every other team in this game uses tank drive. If the robot had TURNED and tried to go in another direction instead of getting locked in a pushing match, you might have an argument, but instead they got locked in a pushing match.

I also note that once a ref DID start a count, the red robot took off in another direction at full speed.


In short, no pins until the ref started counting, due to the chase (or perceived chase) and the pushing match being apparently just off the goal instead of against it. Take a good look at the Q&A in the post just above yours--if that blue robot could move, it was not pinned. No 6' backoff required, no tomahawk count, no pinning fouls.