Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremylee
I see flags waived for 1 red technical, 2 blue technicals, and 1 red foul. I only see penalty points scored for the 2 blue technicals and the 1 red foul? Odd.
Looks to me red initiated the tie up twice playing defense on blue. It also looks like red initiated the final pull apart the 2nd time driving away from blue at which point the robot then became disabled. Technical on blue only for this? Or was it to be a technical on both and the red wasn't scored?
The 2nd blue technical appears to occur at the 1 minute mark when the head ref points to the red robot on the right as they moved in/out of a defensive position triggering the 2nd blue flag wave. Correct call?
Quarter Final 2 Match 2 is another story of a match ending with penalties potentially swinging the outcome. A similar tie up occurred between the same robots with penalties accessed upon them separating. Maybe someone has video of this also?
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Before I begin, I want to make clear that I am not continuing this discussion in an effort to prove that the match was scored correctly. I'm only trying to arrive at a common understanding of the most likely reason that the score wound up the way it did. I truly empathize with all team members involved on both alliances-- this was a harsh way for the quarter final to end.
I do have video of the Q2 Match 2 you refer to but have not viewed it yet. I will try to post as time permits.
Honestly, I hadn't watched the video of match 3 in full screen until after I posted it. I had watched it numerous times on my camcorder that was used for the recording, but that is a 3" screen. I was going on my memory of what was announced as the final score was read-- not based on the actual flags waved during the match.
I only see 4 flag waves although the video does not capture the ref in the lower left corner-- a red flag first while pointing at red followed by the start of bumping wrists (but not much conviction), then two blue flag waves each followed by distinct bumping wrists together. All 3 of these signals are within a few seconds. Then later around 1:33 a red foul no wrist bump indicated by the lower right ref pointing at some activity that is out of frame on the video but can be seen by looking at the audience screen in the video. I'm thinking that must have been the announced possession in that red was inhibiting blue from getting at its ball to score.
Also, I hadn't noticed on my small screen, but the first 50 points of the two blue TF's was actually scored around the 2:10 point in the video. You can see the ref who waved the fouls accessing the panel in the upper right corner of the field. Red score jumps from 87 to 137.
I have no answer why the ref first signaled a red TF that was clearly never scored. Perhaps the gesture was a mistake (miscommunication between head judge and ref?). Even when he switched to the blue flag he pointed at the red robot while waving the flag. Since the ref who signaled the red TF clearly was involved in the scoring, my best conclusion was that the red TF signal was a mistake.
As to the question of which robot initiated contact. I guess it boils down to this bit of G28:
A ROBOT with an element outside its FRAME PERIMETER may be penalized under this rule if it appears they are using that element to purposefully contact another ROBOT inside its FRAME PERIMETER. Regardless of intent, a ROBOT with an element outside its FRAME PERIMETER that causes damage to another ROBOT inside of its FRAME PERIMETER will be penalized, unless the actions of the damaged ROBOT are the catalyst for the damage.
There was a minor entanglement as red tries (successfully) to interrupt a pass between 93 and 1736 at 0:36 on the video. Red is fully within its frame perimeter (all appendages in) at this point and pushes 1736 as it is trying to receive the ball from 93 and successfully defends the pass. Just after 93's arm catches on some part of 3018, but it is minor, no damage and not worthy of any foul on either side in my eyes.
I see 3 events that led to the next entanglement/eventual damage. Red pushes blue in a way that allows blue to enter its frame perimeter. Blue articulates its arm vertical while inside red's frame making disentanglement impossible. Red and blue attempt to disentangle leading to the eventual disconnection of the radio.
I do not think that blue was trying to intentionally entangle when it articulated its arm vertical. But if blue does not articulate, the two robots easily separate and continue playing after red pushes blue aside, similar to how the first entanglement was resolved at 0:36.
So was red *the* catalyst for the damage it received? I personally don't think so, but of course I'm biased. I can see how some might see it that way. Unless one can definitively say that red was 'the catalyst' that caused the damage, the 50 points has to go in red's favor. That's the only exception to robot A causing damage to robot B while inside perimeter (at least that's how I read G27)
As for the *second* blue TF-- well, I'm not at all sure. I don't see it.