[BandChick]

I reffed the MAR Clifton district in Week 3 (with Siri!), but I'm not a head ref, so I don't have all the answers. I will do my best, however, to give you insight into how we made our decisions to the best of my knowledge.

To start, in addition to the rule that Siri mentions, in the FRC Referee Training module (which all refs must complete to be allowed to referee an event), there is a section marked Tournament Rules that clearly states: "The Head Referee has the Ultimate authority in the Arena, but may use input from Game Designers, FIRST Personnel, and Technical Staff. The viewing of recorded replay is not allowed at any time."

So ultimately, the decision comes down to the head ref, although (s)he frequently asks for input from other volunteers on the field.

Originally Posted by dougwilliams

Situation 1: I recall one situation where a field part fell off and "pinned" a robot for a short time. Should that have been a rematch or not? In either case, what is an appropriate response to a questioning student?

For me, replaying this match would depend on a few factors:

1. What caused the field element to fall off (e.g. if it was a gate, did the team that got trapped drive into it themselves?)? Most teams know that gates especially can become easily dislodged from the field perimeter.
2. How long was that team trapped by that element (you said a short pin, but if I had counted it as a ref, would it have been less than or more than 5 seconds?)
3. Was the team that got trapped the same team that caused the field element to break? (e.g. Did Team A knock off the gate, and Team B got stuck on it?)
4. Did the field debris effect the outcome of the match? Now, this one is tough, because it can be subjective -- if that team didn't have the ball, but was maybe playing defense against an opponent trying to score, they might have stopped the score, but there's no way to really know that for sure. However, if the team that got stuck was no where near either ball, then it might be a "non-issue." (I say non-issue lightly here, because it's of course still unfortunate for the team that's stuck.)

In Clifton we had a match where Team A knocked a gate off of the wall, and Team B got stuck on it so badly a) the hang pieces of the gate were mutilated and needed to be reshaped to go back on the bar for the next match and b) tore up the underside of that team's robot. All of the referees discussed with the head ref what had happened, what each of us had seen (some of us were closer to others, saw the contact that pushed Team B onto the gate, etc.), and I believe that we ultimately decided that, as unfortunate as it was, the gate falling into the field was considered field debris, and there was no replay.

Generally speaking, pieces of the field (zip ties, gates, clear plastic panels, etc.) that come off during a match are considered field debris, and teams must navigate around them/continue the match with said pieces on the field (the same way that a team would have to keep playing if pieces of other robots are scattered on the field). I couldn't find a definition anywhere for field debris (I checked the manual and the ref training module I have access to), but there may be more information in the head referee manual/training module.

However, if the field debris is affecting gameplay (e.g. last year during an off-season part of the colored HDPE surrounding the goals fell off and at least partially covered one of the goals), teams are unable to score or traverse the field normally, that is typically declared a field fault. Usually when something like this happens, the match is stopped in the middle, teams are asked to reset their robots, the field fault is fixed, and the match is replayed immediately.

I would explain to your students that pieces of the field should be treated in the same way that pieces of robot are treated during a match -- try your best to avoid them, but know that getting stuck/trapped on them will most likely not result in a replay. Field debris happens, and it is important to design your robot, and train your drive team to know how to avoid getting stuck because of it.

Originally Posted by dougwilliams

Situation 2: Pedestal light times (I know there has been a lot of conversation on this). What criteria has been used to call rematches? Is there some indicator on the field system that something didn't work right? I've heard teams say their pedestals didn't light quickly enough, and I've also heard counter arguments that the ball hadn't completely passed the plane of the goal slot, which isn't visible by the team waiting for the ball usually. What specific events would allow a ref to call a rematch based on only that much information?

As far as we know, the decision to replay is entirely subjective (and most head refs will choose not to replay because of a delay in the pedestal light). Like Siri said, the lighting is manual -- the pedestal lights after a referee has scored the ball on his PDA and hit the submit button OR after a dead ball has been marked by the head ref on his PDA. And unfortunately there is nothing to tell the field system when a pedestal should be lit but isn't (except for a lot of yelling by the volunteers and teams on the field to correct it).

There can be a number of factors for why this is delayed:

1. The referee may have missed the score watching another section of the field (I know it sounds like that should never happen, but there is an enormous amount of responsibilities for this year's refs, and sometimes they miss things).
2. One referee's response time may be slower than another's (e.g. Ref A is scoring Blue, he takes 1/4 of a second to hit submit, whereas Ref B is scoring Red and he takes 1/2 of a second to hit submit)
3. The situation you described where the referee is waiting for the ball to have fully passed through the plane. This does happen, but in my experience not very frequently
4. The referee attempts to submit the score but the PDA doesn't update. This can happen for a number of reasons -- the ref attempted to hit submit but forgot to mark where the goal was scored, the undo button is stuck "on" and the ref cannot select the score and hit submit, the ref accidentally marks the wrong goal for the score, and must undo, reselect the correct goal and then hit submit.
5. We have also noticed that there is a slight lag in response time after the referee hits submit before the pedestal lights (presumably because the field is receiving the score and THEN lighting the pedestal).
6. The head referee does not immediately notice the dead ball on the field -- this one happens a lot, and our head referee noted during one of our discussions that some delay should be expected in this circumstance (the head ref has the hardest job, after all, and is not always in front of the pedestal or may be assessing another problem)

Unfortunately, there is also no fixed number of seconds (as far as I know) for when a match will be replayed because of lag. We had a long discussion at Clifton about a pedestal not being lit for more than 20 seconds (because of referee error), and though several refs believed that the outcome of the match was significantly affected, the head referee mentioned that teams should be prepared to expect a delay. The match I'm discussing was replayed, but not because of the pedestal (there was another field error).

I think it is unlikely to see any matches replayed because of a delayed pedestal light, and will stay that way unless the GDC puts out an update with a specified "reasonable" delay time (i.e. the maximum number of seconds a pedestal can remain incorrectly unlit).

Originally Posted by dougwilliams

Situation 3: A series of fouls are noted by teams of both alliances during a game. The score is displayed with fouls (but which specific foul was not noted during announcement) and one team goes back later to question it. The score was changed at some even later time (after a few matches) but with no announcement to that fact. The team is only informed via FRCSpyder and then goes to question it, where they are informed that they missed the allotted time to question the ruling.
I would have expected the team could see a copy of a scoring sheet with a determination of what specific foul was called, and what was contested and why it was changed (but were only provided with final scores).
Further, in talking to the teams on both alliances, each team had a different specific foul that they thought was scored and then retracted. In this situation we certainly left confused, with 3 different possibilities but no one knew for certain.

I am very surprised to hear that this situation may happen at all -- typically the head referee either announces himself what the penalties were, and later if the score is adjusted why, or informs the Game Announcer who lets the audience know what penalties were assessed/what was changed.

I am also surprised to hear that the team was not allowed to ask what the call was (especially as they weren't asking for it to be overturned, just for more information). Many head referees keep a notebook of penalties that were assessed from match to match specifically to handle these kinds of questions. But like Siri mentioned, if they do not keep a notebook, the field system only marks that there was a penalty, not what it was, and matches do blur together very quickly.

I don't have any better advice for you on this situation than what Siri already advised -- pick your battles, simply ask what the outcome was, and remember to be calm and polite regardless of what the head ref ultimately tells you.

In addition, if penalties and updated scores are not being clearly explained at your events, you can also make a recommendation to your regional director to correct the problem moving forward.