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Unread 01-04-2014, 06:52
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Re: Missed Inbounder Assists

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathking View Post
Referees can and do adjust scores after matches. Once the cycle has ended the change has to wait until the end of the game. There were a number of matches at Queen City in which we adjusted scores after matches. Sometimes we would hit the possession, score and cycle buttons in succession and realize the possession didn't take. We would note the cycle number and add the possession after the match was done. A few times we weren't sure if a team got a possession (mostly it was when they shot or passes just as they crossed from one zone to the next) so we entered the cycle and asked over the radio if there was a possession, fixing any discrepancy after the match.

The biggest problem is that the pads have a bit of lag, and you have to toggle between the foul and scoring/possession screens. Most of the time the pads worked well, but they wouldn't always register a button press. The time spent looking down to insure the button was pressed meant time not looking at the field. If we spend even more extra time trying to figure out if there was another possession or not then the new cycle wouldn't start promptly. I would guess about 10-12 times we went back and added possessions that added assists.

In most of those cases (maybe all of them) at least one of the teams came up to ask about it, and usually I would just turn and say something like "The third assist in your second cycle? Yeah we got it. We are adjusting the score." and they wouldn't even wait in the question box. I don't have an accurate accounting of how many assists we missed (I am sure we missed some) but there were probably a half dozen more times when teams came up and we said "Team xxxx did not get all the way into the white zone before they made their truss shot, so you didn't get three assists." Also, a couple of times when we asked each other "Did that shot go over the truss?" (there were a lot of high balls shot to human players that were above the posts and it was not always clear) the human player of the opposing alliance said "Yes it did."

As has been said in a few previous threads, it would probably have been better if the fifth referee had been included from the start and given a pad to enter fouls. I was the truss referee from Friday afternoon on, and it would have simplified things. But I highly recommend asking about missed possessions right after the match if you think you were shorted. There is a good chance that the referees will remember then and be able to correct it.
As a controls engineer who designs HMIs for machine control, this seems very much like a UI problem on the panels. I haven't used AB stuff (The pads are all Allen Bradley), but just about any plc will have trouble with very fast button presses, and will have a page change time. Any HMI design should try to minimize quick succession button presses and page changes. Humans can be way faster during something like an FRC event once they know where the buttons are, compared to the HMI designer who tested the panel.

Another thing is that the update rate of the HMI software may just not be fast enough. You can get a big usability bump from changing the screen -> plc communications rate from a typical 100 or 200ms down to 25 or 50.

I'd be interested in a list of the buttons on the possesion/foul screens, to see if I could work out a single page, minimal press version.
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Student FRC23 (1996-1999), Mentor FRC246 (2000), Mentor FRC1318 (2007-2009), Mentor FRC93 (2011), Mentor FRC2151 (2012), Mentor FRC23 (2013), Mentor FRC4761 (2014-2017)
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