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Unread 12-01-2015, 22:47
cglrcng cglrcng is offline
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Re: Odd things the rules allow, and should probably be changed

The Rule in question:

R17 At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS, not bagged per R14, known as the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE, that shall not exceed 30 lbs. to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT.

Blue Box:
The WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE may only be brought into the Venue when the Team initially loads in at the Event. Items made at an Event do not
count towards this weight limit.

For Teams attending 2-Day Events, these FABRICATED ITEMS may be used during the Robot Access Period and/or brought to
the Event, but the total weight may not exceed 30 lbs. FABRICATED ITEMS constructed during the Robot Access Period and
bagged with the ROBOT are exempt from this limit.

Blue Box:

Items exempt from this limit are:
A. the OPERATOR CONSOLE,
B. any ROBOT battery assemblies (as described in R4).

_______________________________

Just an IDEA! And a whole bunch of questions for community discussion only at this point please:

Under R17.....Could a "Community Owned and Fabricated, at a single event (that simply takes out the WITHOLDING ALLOWANCE limitation in R17), set of 2 like manipulators, 1 each available per match, to at least 1 robot on both Alliances), weighing under say 5 lbs. each, that would bolt or clamp on, & simply plug in, to many if not most of many different robots (if pre-planning were fairly easy)....Could that "community owned/built/fabricated" item be shared among many Robots during a single competition? (This would be similar to the sharing of Mini-Bots, though those were specifically allowed, and highly encouraged directly by the existing rules then).

IF ACTUALLY ALLOWED BY THE 2015 Ruleset:

All Teams who voluntarily chose to possibly participate in the later use of, would contribute parts, pcs. & time in the creation of the FABRICATED ITEMS in like 15 minutes after initial pit opening on Thursday let's say, at the event only). Pre-Event multi-team Collusion on planning & design would certainly be legal though.

Each voluntarily participating team (if it was deemed eventually legal under the rules of course), would send 1 member only, to a central pit location at the event, to help FABRICATE a like pair, donate items to the community mission, or pay less than say $3~5.00 towards their/it's creation so that "the voluntary participating community" actually ALL owns a pc. of each of the Community Owned FABRICATED MANIPULATORS (That satisfies "and/or upgrade their ROBOT." part of R17 I think we could show fairly easily. (Questions to Q&A at a later date please, after careful debate & discussion here, they would need to be formulated later).

Given that R17 has some direct limitations and exemptions (though I personally see, that it is possible to attempt to work a plan, that could be successful, in abiding by R17 - (Both Letter & Spirit of the rule). True, the plan would have to be quite, or very specific, well thought out in advance, and teams would have to add to their pre-bag Robot design to participate if they wished, and plan to possibly participate before the robot was bagged, and/or make changes once at the event (that would be very easy to do w/ simply adding 1 speed controller, a little wiring and a programming code addition, and figure out quick attachment/detachment & storage possibilities to abide by the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION requirement).

Would that be legal IF all sections of R17 (among many other rules like the BOM, inspection, and weighing w/ the ROBOTS requirements, etc.), were met?

Thinking about a single RC Set manipulator that could very easily be added to almost any robot to help those few that can only drive straight into the Auto Zone, and others, EG: Say Q26...All 3 Robots pr'd. on a single Alliance designed to Auto Stack Totes Individually, 2 designed to Steal Step RC's, but none designed to, singularly get all 3 RC's into the Auto Zone quickly and easily. What Now? (Thrashing a solution between Q rounds isn't so easy).

Well, a simple addition of "1 of the 2" quickly added "Community Owned and Built at the event 3 RC Collectors", and flip over to your already stored code for the Tri-RC Auto, and the RC Auto Set is easily accomplished...After the match, simply return that Community owned pc.

(Oooop's, maybe 4~8 would be better, since I just hit a real snag in the plan...Those in Que, cannot add it to their Transport Config. while in Quing).

Hey a few more avail. wouldn't cost much more than 2. Or, those are the risks the voluntary community takes, and If they are all checked out, it just isn't avail. for use right now. Returning them quickly could be accomplished easily if located in Pit #1 or something like that, lets say. Upon pit re-entry you drop it off quickly, or you stop by and pick it up quickly, and hang it on your hook in your bot for transport. Installs easily on the field and plugs in.

Yes, you have to adapt it for use (on your bot), the practice day if you did not plan ahead. We already know contact info for all that will be competing in events we are competing in already. There is still plenty of time to plan. If we can determine legality of the idea.
________________________________

Lets parse R17 a bit:

At an Event (If we only make or fabricate the items at the event, in say about 15 minutes together or less (many hands makes short work), and as soon as the pits open, as a strictly voluntary community of teams, from COTS items and spare parts sitting in a box, and all teams participating threw in or donated specific items to that box of COTS and spare parts,-giving each participating team partial ownership and work product, by contributing some labor in the actual creation each, from a single pre-accepted & collaborated design plan (a BOM Addendum was created ahead of time, and a handout given to all teams in the participating community).

, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS (Notice that it say's "TEAMS," and not "EACH TEAM," , and also take that all together, "At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS,", (yes, we would be creating a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS together),not bagged per R14, known as the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE, that shall not exceed 30 lbs. to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT. (Said "community paid for, created, and owned items, made at the event only, and all pcs. would be brought in only during the official Load In period, would not be bagged per R14, but would also be exempt from both the WITHOLDING ALLOWANCE, and the Bagging under R14...By simply being Made at the event, and should be able to be used to.../or upgrade their ROBOT. If owned by all, then the shared pc's. should satisfy that very important word "their ROBOT)...See the following blue box below R17.:

Blue Box:
The WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE may only be brought into the Venue when the Team initially loads in at the Event. Items made at an Event do not
count towards this weight limit.

Anyone see any real viable arguments about the non-violation in either Word or Spirit contained in the parsing of R17 above? (Making it at the event is the key, ownership by all participating in donations of materials & labor to the items made, and in correct BOM addition(s) helps plenty).

By making the items strictly "AT THE EVENT" (IF YOU remove all the exceptions that takes away - "known as the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE, that shall not exceed 30 lbs. to be used to repair and"). And...(The WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE may only be brought into the Venue when the Team initially loads in at the Event). SINCE: (Items made at an Event do not
count towards this weight limit).

________________________
And it would truly match the balance of R17: (The remaining portions of R17 after removing the exceptions would be as follows

R17 At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS, not bagged per R14, to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT. The WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE may only be brought into the Venue when the Team initially loads in at the Event. Items made at an Event do not count towards this weight limit.

"Items made at the event do not count towards the 'WITHOLDING ALLOWANCE' weight limit", but the "may only be brought into the Venue when the Team initially loads in at the Event." requirement does".
___________________
Then: (If the items are made only "At an Event", and "all pcs are brought in during initial Load In," and all voluntarily participating teams, contribute to the creation of the items in both labor & materials, and therefore, each own a pc. of "The Rock", or a portion of each item:

Then it would appear that it stands to reason, that "A Communty pr. or more, of specific multi-robot fitting, 3 RC Set Manipulator(s) created only and quickly at an event, to be shared pcs. (as long as all other rules are followed as pertains to, among others, BOM, Inspection, weighing, electrical, transport configuration, and game rules, etc.)

We would gain the advantage of helping each other, (not every team would have to build the killer 3 RC Set Manipulator, and both Alliances would stand to benefit equally every match without violating the letter or spirit of R17, by only allowing more participation by some, or all teams robots not designed initially for every single functionality during the Auto Period, to possibly work together a bit better and more often).

"At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS, not bagged per R14, to be used to upgrade their ROBOT."

I'm just saying...Imagine using as a competing community R17 in that manner, to benefit each and your own teams. We aren't playing for W-L-T until the finals, we all compete against one another, but we all compete with each other also....What we do for the least of us, we all do for all the rest of us. Not all robots are designed & built to complete all functions or facets of the game...And a pusher bot that can only (IF), drive straight ahead, can only push 1 item at a time usually....A lil' help in programming, and a simple bolt or clamp on/plug in solution (and a few minutes of time), could go along way to help all teams.

I'm just saying to do it right...R17 could be shortened to mean simply if done right & sold right via the Q&A: At an Event...(voluntary participating) TEAMS...Have Access to a static set of (Community Created Owned & Loaned) FABRICATED ITEMS, not bagged per R14 (to be temporarily used by up to at least 1 robot per alliance per match), to upgrade their ROBOT.

Or,

R17 At an Event, Teams may have access to a static set of FABRICATED ITEMS, not bagged per R14, to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT.

That, if determined legal would be a kick!

(They could even possibly also be silent auctioned off, or by raffle, during the event "if prior approved of course", for proceeds going to charity purposes, and awarded to the auction or raffle winners at the end of the event, to add to their witholding allowance, if they have room, and bagged up before leaving the event for use in a suceeding event. By that time, everyone would know the design, and whether it even worked well or not!)

Or simply taken apart and returned pc.-by-pc. to each team participating if the above suggestion was ruled illegal or not agreed to for some reason!