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Unread 02-03-2015, 14:49
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IronicDeadBird IronicDeadBird is offline
Theory Crafting Fo days...
AKA: Charles Ives "M" Waldo IV
FRC #1339 (Angelbots)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Rookie Year: 2005
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Re: Week 1 Observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda Morrison View Post
Enjoyment is indeed subjective, yet I personally disagree with your reasoning.

The FRC community is not used to seeing task-based games without active defense, or any other kind of incredibly significant defensive challenges against our alliances while accomplishing these tasks. (Noodles being thrown are not nearly as significant as, say, a team blocking your shots or pulling a goal away from you.) In the past we've had difficult game pieces, but had rules against de-scoring or had safety zones designed to assist offensive gameplay. The combination of repetitive tasks, without direct competition, match after match... you're only working to beat your best time. Yes, the tasks themselves are not easy. Yet each year we're given difficult tasks alongside the pressure of active defense, and with that precedent I believe this year many of us feel that something is lacking. In your example you list both chess and Jenga as examples, yet I feel a better example is the game Perfection.

So for many in our community, racing against a clock is less thrilling than directly racing against, say, HOT Team 67. Why? Because one is absolutely terrifying to play against year after year and one is - well, a clock.

"Skills challenge" games are not new to FIRST, although it's been about 14 years since it was last tried. 2001 featured a similar game style with a race against the clock. Reviews from participants will vary, with some considering it one of the very best games and some, among the worst. If you have not watched that game, check out this video for what is considered one of the most exciting matches that year. Maybe it gets your heart pounding - maybe it doesn't.

So my TL;DR is: High achievement of teams on the field is not what makes it less "fun" to watch for many people, IMO - it is the lack of direct competition for this achievement (to which we've become accustomed in past FRC games).

Additionally, as a spectator I did not enjoy the simultaneous field action. I found it difficult to watch both sides of the field and truly keep track of what was happening unless I was watching the zones closest to the landfill. This type of game may be exciting for FLL, but for me it doesn't seem to scale well for our larger robots.
Full disclosure that perfection reference got me right in the nostalgia gland. While I did list chess and Jenga as games I meant to use them to portray examples of games where the "fun" comes from very different means. Neither are very good comparisons to this years game at all. Man I got to go see if I still have perfection laying around somewhere...
Anyway
I did say that this game was good (in the sense of its level of design is very good its a smart game) it is just that it is the wrong audience. This kind of PvE game when you are racing the clock is best experienced when it is one person against a clock not 6 people against a clock. When you play perfection you are the one in the tense position, if you watch someone play perfection its less tense because you don't actually have to do anything.
I phrased it poorly, high level teams don't make this boring. The difficulty of the game doesn't scale up to the level of high level teams and provide them with the challenge that excites the viewer or team. Also that is only one of the reasons why this isn't exactly the most spectator friendly game. Field clutter, estimates on live score, no real focus.
Once again though there is still a lot from this game I would like to see the GDC keep in mind or re use for future games.

Also let me make it extremely clear that I mean no disrespect to any high level team
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Last edited by IronicDeadBird : 02-03-2015 at 14:52.
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