Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
Seriously? Have we actually stooped to harrassing some poor phone staffers at HQ and laughing about it? You guys do realize that FIRST has more programs than just FRC, right? And that not everyone at HQ is an ex-FIRSTer? I realize that in your bubble, 254 and 1114 are world famous and everyone should know them, but that's simply not true. I guarantee you I can find veteran FRC teams that have never heard of either of those teams. You know why? Cause they've never been to Champs.
Okay, I haven't had time to read every post in this thread, because I work and I can't spend all afternoon keeping track of this, so forgive me if I'm not up to the minute on the debate. You can all mark me down as in favor of the change. Here's some comments: - Can we please try to be adults about this? Calling HQ enmasse and harrassing staffers there seems childish. Especially on Thursday of district champs. Especially when people are trying to work out actual problems for getting to the 2015 Champs. HQ isn't going to change this policy over a single day of CD exploding. You may as well settle in for a long fight if you want to fight this. Meanwhile, stop causing problems for normal teams.
- No one is suggesting giving out awards in the KoP or trophies for participating in Champs. Suggesting FRC is moving to that is childish, stop. If you really think having two best in the world alliances instead of one is equivalent to participation trophies, I invite you to congratulate the Champs Finalists on their participation trophies.
- Really, complaining about two world champions not being champions is unpersuasive to me in general. MLB has the NL and AL Championships and then proceeds to a World Series that only involves US teams + the occasional Canadian team. Not-actually-world-championships are a time honored tradition in sports. If you think this will confuse the general public, you may need to get out more.
- It's laughable to declare that Champs was already deciding the top 3 teams in the world currently anyways, due to divisions. Einstein typically doesn't even have the top 4 alliances on it thanks to some divisions being packed.
- We already have multiple EI winners at Champs. I'm finding it difficult to believe that WFA winners and Chairman's winners are going to feel cheated because someone else is recognized for extreme excellence in the same year. Petulantly whining that now you're not the absolute best at spreading the message seems out of character.
- Champs is already pretty darned elite. About 33% of teams at Lone Star have EVER been to Champs before this year. I suspect this is fairly representative. You want to complain about not seeing all your favorite inspiring teams at Houston Champs? What about the 66% of FRC teams that haven't EVER seen these teams?
- OTOH, Champs is already watered down. Waitlist teams, 2nd picks. 2nd pick wildcards. Are we really pretending that Champs is the absolute best of the best? Super Regionals may have gotten it closer, but you'd still have 2nd picks riding tailcoats in.
Really though, it all comes down to the teams for me. I see a ton of people in here declaring how inspiring Champs is, how great it is to see all these elite teams. And 66% of Lone Star teams have ever had that experience. I suspect Frank and those behind this decision might be a little more concerned about inspiring that 66% than the top 5% of teams splitting hairs over who's the #1 all-time greatest ever in the world this year. |
I think you summed it up pretty well Kevin. My initial reaction was that two championships would dilute the feeling, but after seeing various reactions and thinking about this change more, I think it is overall a positive change for FIRST. When I look back at my time as a student in FRC, having the ability to go to championships on the waitlist was inspiring in so many ways, not only because of the atmosphere, but also being part of the competition. And it was fun to play with some of the best teams in the world, but in no way did it have to be with all of them. I understand where people are coming from in saying that it may further dilute the top tier competition, and I agree to an extend.
However, I think this change is a step in the right direction to get more students involved while maintaining a high level and respectable program