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Unread 03-06-2015, 16:43
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Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblake View Post
Ed,

You (and the other folks who liked what you wrote) and I are pretty far apart on this topic. Because this general subject has been a raw nerve for me for quite a while, a combative tone probably shows up in what I write.

It's not personal. I do have some strong opinions about the subject(s); but please don't mistake those opinions for a dislike of Ed Law (or Tom Line, or Weberr, or ...)

I think I might use those exact same words, but mean something significantly different than you meant.

Two thoughts:
A) The first of the two is a question. Who is the "we" you mention? What are they responsible for? and who made them responsible for it?

B) The second of the two is a disagreement. My answer to whether "that" is practical is this, "Obviously and unambiguously, yes, it is." Without actually poring through the rule books to double-check, with two minor exceptions I think those grade ranges are exactly the ranges the entire rest of planet Earth is using running their FIRST programs/activities.
The two exceptions that I think I see are 1) I think FLL normally goes up through 9th grade (mostly outside of North America?), and 2) I am not aware of a lower age/grade limit on any FIRST program.
Leading up to my next question, I'll suggest that the Michigan schools are experts at dealing with the ages of students on school teams; that they have been experts for decades, and that they can almost certainly continue to handle that matter on their own.

I'll also reiterate that the rest of the world seems to doing just fine using the standard FIRST age/grade ranges. Was I napping when FIRST or some other group announced that FIRST's programs, event partners, etc. were having big problems caused by using those grade ranges? In all the success stories and other (well-deserved) praise I have read in this thread, I haven't seen one single thing described that (IMO) required mandatory changes in team age/grade ranges.

So, in addition to asking the "we" question above, I would sincerely like to learn what specific problem is being affected by FiM trying to change FIRST's age/grade ranges?

Blake
PS: I was trying to wait for a reply from Gail before writing anything new in the thread, but couldn't fight the feeling.

I continue to hope that Gail or someone will shoot me a copy of the presentation(s)/proposal(s)/whatever that FiM used to pitch their plans to the Michigan government, and to others; plus a copy of the arithmetic they used when deciding to recommend the initiatives in that/those documents.

In the request I sent to Gail, I speculated that some of the material would contain items reasonable people might debate. I also speculated that the info in that material would probably also supply the clarity that could short-circuit threads like this one.
I appreciate your clarification about your combative tone. It seems that you were attacking everybody in Michigan that does not agree with you even though they did not make the rules. But now I understand, thanks.

Let me first answer your question. I am going to rewrite it from "To keep all the parents happy in our school district, we will have to make FLL K-8, FTC 5-12 and FRC 6-12" to "To keep all the parents happy in our school district, the program will have to be change d to K-8 for FLL, 5-12 for FTC and 6-12 for FRC."

To save you the trouble to understand the FIRST programs age cutoff. here it is. Jr.LL is K-3 (age 6-9). FLL is 4-8 (age 9-14, 9-16 outside US and Canada). FTC is high school and FRC is high school. There is very little overlap if any. So what I said above to make our parents happy is to widen the range and add a lot of overlap to create flexibility. Obviously I am not advocating for that.

Yes, you and I are miles apart on this issue. And I am not trying to convince you. My biggest disagreement with you is with your philosophy which you quoted "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." Just because there is a saying by somebody in the past does not make it right or the truth. Many people have said many things in the past. It depends on the context. Not everything can be applied to every situation. I am a firm believer in Kaizen (continuous improvement). We put a lot of emphasis on Kaizen at my place of work. Many of us work on Kaizen projects on the side. Even if something is not broken, we try to improve process/product that affects our work, to make it more efficient, to make us more productive, to make work life more enjoyable. It directly translate to the bottom line. Customer satisfaction will increase and the company will be more profitable and competitive. A company that does not change things and wait until it is truly broken will most probably not going to be able to survive for very long in this global competitive economy.
I am not trying to convince you that my way is right. You are welcome to stay believing in what you believe in. At the same time, other people have the right to do things differently than you without you getting upset with them.
I remember when Michigan changed to the district model, a lot of people were upset with Michigan teams. One of their concern is that it will be forced upon them. Seven years later, I don't see that happening. That was called a pilot program at that time meaning there was a chance FIRST HQ will adopt it elsewhere. For this issue, Michigan is not running a pilot program. FiM is not trying to convince FIRST that it is good for everybody and they should implement this outside of Michigan.
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