Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH
No, we aren't. I was looking at the originally posted PNW video, which is where I made the statement that you disagreed with. The video you link wasn't brought up until 9 hours or so after the post I was directly responding to.
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Ok. My post #23 was in response to your post #21, which quoted my response #20, which quote your response #19 that had the video link. I presumed your response #19 was commenting on your video link, not the original video link.
With respect to the original video link (post #1), I can understand "why" the Ref started the Pin Count. I can also understand "why" other people may disagree.
What I think the Ref saw was that Red may have been in contact with Blue in such a way that prevented blue from moving (I believe some people call it a t-bone pin). In fact, there was an angle where Red momentarily contacted the corner of the bot (which would have really prevented Blue from moving). Red also stayed in contact with Blue in such a way that, if Red was pushing forward, it could have prevented Blue from moving backwards off the batter: Blue's drive train (from a stopped position) may have not been able to overcome the side force of the Red robot in order to start moving backwards.
I can see how Ref'ing "in real time" it becomes a judgement call whether Blue was somehow prevented from moving, thus a pin. With the benefit of video replay, it is fairly obvious - "no". It just may not be so obvious when you are watching it real time.
IMHO, I think Ref's should error on the side of starting the Pin Count, and figuring it out as they are counting. You can always waive off a Pin Count, you can't go back and retroactively add time to the Pin Count (start the count at 2).
Just like there is the Crossing Rule that gives robots a no-contact zone in the Outer Works to shoot from, robots can also expect to use the pin/batter blue box to be able to aim during a 3 second no-contact period when a robot backs off to avoid a pin foul.