[Katie_UPS]

Its very hard as a female to be involved in these conversations because even though the experiences and insights relevant are those of my fellow ladies, our posts are either ignored or argued against.

If you want to help women in STEM, start by listening to women in STEM and not arguing against what they say. If a girl says someone creeped her out, don't argue that it wasn't creepy.

and of course as I had this sitting in my drafts, Madison posts the same thing

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Unless a member goes above normal social limits IE touching the said member in an inappropriate way, stalking said member, or continuously making a member uncomfortable mentors getting involved especially older ones will mostly make the situation worse embarrassing both parties involved.

If a student is not comfortable taking care of the situation themselves, they have every right to ask a mentor for help. Like Amanda said, "[A mentor would] rather be dragged aside by students 1000 times than have one student feel uncomfortable at an event."

Originally Posted by Philip Arola

Characterizing awkward situations as 'seriously disturbing' is a gross overreaction, and moves shame from the victim to the offender. What I want is no one to feel shame while coming to an understanding.

The victim should never ever feel ashamed. I know you are not implying that in any scenario, the person receiving unwanted advances should feel like that have done something wrong.

If A made B uncomfortable, its completely acceptable for A to feel shame. It's a great tool for learning when one did something not-good and should avoid doing that in the future.

You are lumping every possible awkward situation 'seriously disturbing,' and that they are not meant to be trivialized. Just because I think that there are worse things in the world than a boy unable to properly gauge a situation doesn't mean I trivialize sexual abuse. In fact, lumping in awkwardness is what, by definition, trivializes abuse.

Why are we down-grading creepy behavior to "awkwardness." The original anecdote was "I watched one of my (female) students get sufficiently creeped out by a (male) student's behavior towards her that she was physically hiding from him at the competition."

You don't "physically hide" from awkwardness. Why are we excusing creepy/inappropriate behavior and calling it "awkwardness". I have worked with students who needed guidance on how to interact with humans, I get that there can be awkward kids. But when someone does something wrong we shouldn't be brushing it off, we should be correcting them with "whoa, [person], that was wrong."

Originally Posted by jweston

One of the things that makes this so difficult is one person's awkward flirting is another's persistent harassment.

This isn't difficult. If a student is feeling harassed, they should have every right to NOT be harassed and the awkward flirting should stop.

Originally Posted by AmiableVariable

If I feel that the level of harassment/ boundary issues is higher in engineering than my general life (which it most definitely is), and those in the field insist that this is natural, and just part of life in engineering, why on earth would I be willing to put in the effort to be rewarded with a hazardous and emotionally draining environment? It takes a very high level of interest to be willing to deal with that on a regular basis. Have you ever had to consider that by working in a STEM field, you will statistically be more likely to be harassed and discriminated against? Because that in itself is a significant deterrent, without the issue being brushed aside. There are reasons why girls tend to show less interest.

How do we make STEM a better place for women? By supporting women who say "something made me uncomfortable" instead of saying "deal with it." Because saying "deal with it" or making excuses for it, as AmiableVariable pointed out, does not help anybody.

A lot of posters who are getting defensive make me think that they maybe, at one point in time, participated in "creepy" behavior. Insisting that the behavior is question is not "creepy" but instead "awkward" or "misguided," is not helping anyone. Instead of excusing creepy behavior or debating what behavior is creepy, we should guide those "misguided, awkward" students so that instead of coming across as creepy, they come across as normal humans who can interact with other humans.

If a person is uncomfortable with another person's actions, ask how you can help correct the situation. Maybe they just want moral support but can deal with the person themselves or maybe they will want someone step in and do the talking. Ask and respect their answer.