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Originally Posted by gp2013
I think you are oversimplifying. FIRST specifically addresses strategies aimed at damaging a robot. Nothing in the rule book indicates what should happen when two robots engaged in offensive/defensive interactions result in one robot accidentally tipping. What do you do when a defensive robot drives up onto another robots bumpers behind a sally door or drawbridge and ends up tipped?
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Which a "strategy" is pretty ambiguous sure. But I think the referees have to call it that way to preserve the season of the other side of the glass which you currently are ignoring. No alliance is "entitled" to a win.
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Seems to me penalizing the offensive robot for tipping seems harsh. Especially considering the call essentially ends their season and the thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars that team invested. FIRST has specifically said they designed this game to impair visibility. To what end? To penalize teams for accidents? Expecting a driver to prevent tipping an aggressive defender from 40 feet away behind two sets of defences borders on the ridiculous.
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You seem to be specifically sighting the case where your specific team was given a red card, I won't comment on that. A tip is a tip. A tip with no call is virtually a lost match. It doesn't matter how you got tipped. Defender? Scorer? Breacher? You are still equally screwed when the time comes to capture and you are instantly down 30 points. You are blindsighted to the other side of the argument completely.
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In 2014 the foul points were harsh. When an alliance essentially can rack up over 200 points because of a stupid human player is ridiculous when the average match scores without penalties were roughly half that. Penalties should be aimed to teach and direct students behaviour to correct it, not to disqualify teams for accidents or errors.
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This is just an inherent game design flaw. No rule change can fix this. There was only one ball, thus these rules
had to exist at these point values. Just like tipping robots
has to be called aggressively to not screw over teams.
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The other issue is fairness in applying the rules. If tipping is penalized with a red card, then every tip should be penalized the same.
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Again not every tip is the same, nor is every call perfect.
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Originally Posted by MaGiC_PiKaChU
Speaking about design, what if a robot that was designed to flip itself back over gets tipped over by another robot? do they still get the red card? or is that team who made that design choice penalized because they can't be incapacitated? What if they decide to stay upside down, is that a G11 because they want the other alliance to get that red card?
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I don't think anyone purposefully decides to design their robot to fall over and then flip themselves upright. It's a pretty non-existent scenario