View Single Post
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-09-2016, 23:01
Ed Law's Avatar
Ed Law Ed Law is offline
Registered User
no team (formerly with 2834)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Foster City, CA, USA
Posts: 752
Ed Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is FIRST about Robot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblake View Post
Ed,

Earlier today, I had a devil of a time with my Internet connection but I was able make some progress. I spent the time my connection was up, going over my recent posts to look for any place where I might have written the ideas you describe. There seem to be some "disconnects".

I still plan to write a reply that covers my take on the fundamental, philosophical topic, if you will; but first let's try to reconnect the disconnects.
No sweat - I can unconfuse you about how I feel about that part of things. Within the last week, in this post 346, I wrote this "... you feed the STEM hunger of eager/inspired students, and you feed them as much as you and they can handle - because it's fun."

Again, within the last week, in the same post 346, I tried to explain my point of view with these sentences,
"When planning club/team activities, whenever we reached the point of having to choose/recommend how we are going to spend our chunks of scarce time, I try[sic] to think hard about whether I/we should invest those hours and energy into making an OK robot better, or into introducing new people to STEM opportunities.

Those two things certainly aren't 100% mutually-exclusive, but they aren't 100% identical either; and the clock is a merciless taskmaster.
"

So I agree with you, good robots and the other parts of being an FRC team aren't exclusive.

Where I suspect we might disagree is the subject of whether build a best-possible robot is the primary mission of an FRC team, and/or on whether FRC teams need to build a best-possible robot in order to accomplish their primary mission.

Everywhere I searched (so far) for any place I might have accidentally written that an FRC team's annual robot isn't important, I came up empty. I'm glad that I didn't accidentally write that in any of the places I looked so far. Can you point to any place (so that I can fix it)?

With that in mind, I think we agree that being a well-rounded and good FRC team easily includes, and certainly doesn't exclude building good robots.

Where you and I (and others who would encourage both of us) probably diverge is on whether "best-possible robot" is the enemy of "good-enough robot".

Along those lines, I have written things like this comment about what I would suggest is a good way to evaluate the success of a FIRST team. "... introducing students to enough positive STEM experiences to open their eyes to the possibility that they might enjoy a STEM career. To do that you don't even need to have competitions. You might choose to use competitions, but they aren't required." (in the PS of this post 214).

Also, in this post 5, I wrote this *opinion* about how I would look at things, if I were FIRST HQ, "I think that the the on-the-field performance exhibited by the teams that are already doing well (in that part of FIRST), is good enough. I don't mean to say that better performance would be harmful; but if I'm right, I do mean that across the globe, for the teams that aren't struggling, improving the on-the-field part of FRC should not be pulling time, attention, and other resources away from the other parts of FRC.".

Another way to say it would be that I (and Mathking, and JWeston, and Jon Stratis, and ...) believe that FIRST intends for the teams' robots to be a means, not an end.

Does the above close up those disconnects?

I don't think I'm writing anything now or before that is substantially different from what Mathking, JWeston, Kressley, Stratis, and others have written here and elsewhere. I suppose write I it more often than them - and thereby make myself a lightning rod - but I don't think that I'm out of synch with them or the many others who share the "means, an not an end" viewpoint.

Blake
Hi Blake,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am not going back to look at what you posted before to find if there are inconsistencies. You already stated what you believe in and I believe you. But if I catch you saying that in the future, I will PM you.
It is my belief also that the robot is the hook. It is the means and not the end so there is no disagreement there. I think your assessment in our difference is correct. Whatever I do, I always put in my all. I don't stop and say it is good enough. I don't teach my students to do just good enough. We set goals and we do our best to achieve them.
I was taught that there are four types of tasks: important and urgent, important and not urgent, not important and urgent, and not important and not urgent. This is how I prioritize. Outreach and robot performance are both important. It is not necessary to say if one is more important than the other. They both need to be done. So if there is a situation when I have to pick one over the other because of limited time, I need to see which one is more urgent. If it is before bag day or a competition, getting the robot ready is more urgent, outreach is not as urgent as we have the rest of the year to do. During the off season, outreach is more urgent especially when there are only a short window of opportunities. Working on off-season robot project to improve our capabilities and competitiveness on the field is not urgent. Actually we almost never do those things. As you can see, it is a very simple decision.
This is how I prioritize things. I am not going to tell anybody how they should prioritize their time. I hope you will do the same. Oftentimes when there is a thread where people discuss how to make the competitions more competitive overall, how to bring the bottom up etc., you gave people the impression that you are telling them their head is in the wrong place, that off the field performance is more important than on the field performance. Maybe that is not your intent but your tone said otherwise.
Thank you again for your reply. We should definitely chat further.

Ed
__________________
Please don't call me Mr. Ed, I am not a talking horse.
Reply With Quote