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Unread 24-01-2017, 00:30
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Re: Picking up fuel from the ground vs. using hoppers/retrieval zone

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
At least as 3946 is considering it, the point of the strategy isn't to deny the hopper-loading robot the first load (though that would be even better), but to deny or at least minimize the possibility of a second, third, fourth, and fifth "free" load. With a bit of drive practice or a cleverly arranged bumper/chassis configuration, a robot could spill all the hoppers on one side in a single strafe heading to the retrieval area, and the other side on the return trip. The bottom line is that if scoring (or even delivering) fuel is your primary activity, you need to be able to harvest them from the carpet or you'll find yourself moving on to a secondary activity early in the match.
I'm not sure if you think we disagree. I don't think we do, but thank you for expanding the topic. I have three additions I'd like to make:

A) To clarify, my discussion in your quote is about a hopper "race" in which the issue is time tradeoffs versus opponent strategies. In this situation, the natural definition a "race" to me is limited to a two-sided competitive situation. Any alliance that cares to and can drive reasonably (and at higher levels probably load in auto) will reach their own closest hoppers before the opposition. It follows that any even hopper "race" by this definition can reasonably involve no more than one hopper, and thus racing closely resembles other field-positioning situational defensive choices rather than a loop. Races, which primarily start when someone wants to offensively use hoppers, msut end before multiple free loads by one robot. Essentially if you want hoppers (to score), they'll be gone. (So of course I agree if you're a primary fuel bot, you need to pick up and can't plan for more than 2 hoppers.) I also discuss other reasons to dump hoppers up front that aren't a flat out race, even if it means going out of your way (two seconds now isn't worth two seconds later).

B) In terms of whether or not you're going out of your way for a hopper loop, the field picture can be deceptive. Doing an along-the-wall run may mesh perfectly with your alliance's other auton-to-teleop (or later) priorities or it might not. For instance, this could commonly require a cross-over route with an ally that loaded from the hopper in auton. On many alliances who mesh well or otherwise aren't under too much pressure, cross-overs aren't really a big problem--for others they very much are. Separately, each leg of a hopper loop like this is a limited path on a constrained field in a limited time window (i.e. before the other guy decides they want a hopper) during which the driver is also prioritizing staying on the wall along with their other requirements. This has historically opened up exploitation opportunities for opponents of similar caliber as the driver.

C) To expand on the other point, if you find yourself not in a race when you thought you'd be, you do need to immediately ask yourself why. I use the word reassess--this doesn't mean don't do it, just consider what else you might have miscalculated in allocating your time and predicting the opposition. Did they screw up auton or the auto-teleop transition? Can you take advantage of it (something you almost certainly need to do right now before they regroup)? Are they better at gears than you thought? Do you need to rework your defensive timing/plan? etcetera.

C-1) Moreover, if you unexpectedly find multiple hoppers still available and want to dump them via a (still short) initial path you weren't mapped for, you need to communicate this properly. Failure to do so can and does cause far more traffic jams than it's worth. I've seen (and received) way too many robots T-boning their alliance partners when they try to unexpectedly blitz like this. Instead of the alliance zooming off in their respective lanes and reaping what should be "fast out of the gate" benefits from what can otherwise be a known teleop transition, multiple allies lose their initial field position and waste time bogging down. This year it could cause very unfortunately located traffic jams, especially if the opposition can exploit it. Pulling of a successful reroute benefits heavily from contingency planning, correct early autonomous predictions, and strong coach communication. You need to communicate correctly, and you need to be communicating with teams that will actually adapt to you--the latter especially is less common than you might think and is something you need to gauge realistically for that particular match.
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