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Unread 26-01-2017, 11:03
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Re: Value of a Gear Ground Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
I'm going to stop being coy like I was in the autonomous thread, and lay out exactly why I think you're wrong here. At the highest levels of play, we will see 2-gear autonomous modes. Stop thinking about it in terms of how many points an individual robot can score in autonomous, and start thinking about how you can maximize your alliances' autonomous score.

Let's start with the following assumptions:
*The alliance is composed is two "high functionality" autonomous teams (scoring hopper fuel, scoring multiple gears, or scoring both pre-loaded fuel and pre-loaded gear) and one "average functionality" autonomous team (scoring pre-loaded fuel or scoring single gear).
*Time and travel restrictions will it impossible for multiple robots on the same alliance to complete a hopper scoring autonomous with sufficient time to process scored fuel
*Time and travel restrictions will make it impossible for the same team to score BOTH it's pre-loaded gear AND the hopper fuel
*It's not possible for the same robot to place 3 gears on a lift with sufficient time to start 2 rotors before the end of autonomous

Based on those four assumptions, the highest scoring combination of three routines would be as follows:
Robot A - Drops pre-loaded gear, loads from hopper, scores in high efficiency goal
Robot B - Places pre-loaded gear on lift, picks up Robot A's gear, places Robot A's gear on lift
Robot C- Places pre-loaded gear on lift

The 20 bonus points from starting an additional rotor in autonomous is worth twice as many points as either Robot B or Robot C scoring their pre-loaded fuel in the high efficiency boiler with 100% accuracy. This is precisely why I think we're going to see a handful of alliances at the DCMP/CMP level employ 2-gear autonomous routines.


I also don't think I agree with this.
I think this is a reasonable argument and strategy, and so I could easily be wrong and it could totally happen. But I think it's still going to be a tough sell, for a few reasons:

The biggest physical challenge is that your robot that is dropping the gear can't be freely moved to wherever the 2-gear auton robot wants it to be. In 2011 or 2014, the robot with the multi-gear auton could place the partner wherever, since that partner wasn't doing much. For this, the partner needs to be in whatever specific area of the field it runs its 60-ball auto from. Maybe every robot running this auton starts in the same specific area, that's totally possible, I'm not really trying for the 60 ball on my team so I haven't given that specific auton much thought. But it's one more problem.

But even from a full alliance perspective it's just not a lot of points for the effort. It's a differential of 20 points + the extra cycling time in teleop. This is certainly not a trivial number of points, and the cycling time totally matters, but it's a lot of effort to justify this bonus.

I think the more likely high level autonomous task for a pair of top tier auton teams is for them to load from both sides of the hopper at the same time. As long as one of them can shoot from that spot, this allows two robots to attempt up to 120 shots on the high goal. Of course, not all of them will go in and not all of them will process at a fast enough rate, but you only need 20 extra balls in autonomous to go in for it to be justified, a 33% accuracy if you get the whole hopper.

I totally could be very wrong, I've called games wrong before and autonomous isn't something my team is specializing in because of our capabilities.
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