[Madison]

Before I begin, I wanted to mention (to Aidan, particularly) that I probably could've chosen what I quoted originally more carefully. Beyond what I outlined in my recent post, there's nothing about what you wrote that I disagree with. I apologize for the confusion. What I object to is going down the road that suggests that those who are silent with appreciation are, in any capacity, more passionate about FIRST.

Originally posted by Argoth
Sorry to use you as the test subject M. Krass but it had to be someone.

No need to apologize. I'm here to learn just like everyone else, but that doesn't mean I won't refute what you say.

In your second paragraph(the first paragraph below) you said "whether it's because it doesn't focus on what we feel is important" and waht you may deam important is not necessarly important to say delphi or my team.
EVERYBODY who is on a team is prejudice, be it for or against their team, so any rules that anybody on a team is going to be prejudice in some way.

That's precisely what I said. We all see methods of improving these criteria because we're each approaching them with unique ideas about FIRST and goals for its future. In context, I simply meant that everyone is approaching their criticism of these criteria from varied perspectives and that those perspectives and influences should not invalidate the subsequent criticism. Rather, it's important that we recognize the motivation behind some criticism as much as we understand that criticism -- they both speak volumes.

On this second paragraph i just wanted to say that they never said they were the only ones passionate about FIRST because they weren't challanging it, but they were saying that they WERE passionate because many people here are just simply bashing the new system

I don't see anyone bashing this system. I see people expressing their opinion of the criteria and displaying some of the motivations that helped form those opinions. Even if someone can't eloquently illustrate their discontent, sometimes knowing that they're discontent is enough to effect change.

The comment I quoted was dismissive and silencing of those who have voiced their frustration or concern about these new rules. If you've read some more of what I've written in other parts of this site -- such as in this week's Question of the Week -- you'll see that I feel very strongly about being respectful of and appreciating the many different reasons that people have for participating in FIRST. Any statement that suggests some ideal philosophy over any other is, in my opinion, a disservice to this community and to FIRST.

1) You can either continue to whine without till you see it has very little effect except to piss people off, and when you see the competition won't change for a while you will have to "cowboy up" in a hurry

You're new to FIRST, reasonably, so I can understand why you might feel that way -- as it is indicative of the sort of behavior you'd expect in any other organization. The reality is that FIRST does listen in some capacity and that they have done many things at the suggestion of participants. If they didn't, I wouldn't participate.

AND 4) YOU can make your own robotics league so you can truly appreciate the work and if you do put a thread here so people can say what they think of it (just to let you see how it feels)

I've been involved with FIRST in varying capacities since I began in 1999. I have been a small cog in the machine that makes FIRST people and it's difficult, thankless work. I know that what I've done is only a fraction of what's going on across the country, but I do appreciate the work that these people do for FIRST. Honestly, I've experienced far worse criticism than this and, really, it wouldn't bother me in the least. You can look at it two ways, I think;

1. - People are unappreciative and don't really care what you do for them.

2. - People are so passionate about what you've done that they want to do everything they possibly can do to make it the best it's ever been.

There are two sides to every coin.