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Unread 29-12-2004, 02:45
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Cory Cory is offline
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AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
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Re: Appropriate penalties for off-the-field ethical/behavioral violations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag
I don't feel that any penalties are necessary because I couldn't imagine that any of the fine teams in this program would even consider such a thing.
You'd be very surprised at how often such violations, and other similar ones occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningQuestion
The team might not have known that they were in violation of the rules, and it would be unfair to punish then too severely for something that they might not have even known about. This should be applicable to most infractions.
Ignorance of the law does not make you exempt from it.

If I were FIRST, I'd announce to all teams that Team xxx has been caught breaking rules off the field to give their team an advantage. Everyone is going to find out anyways, you can just magically say "hey quess what guys, team xxx can't be picked for the finals, but we're not telling you why. Don't go around thinking that they did something wrong though, because that's not very nice"

Yes, this may not sound like much of a punishment, but Im guessing it's likely that no other teams are going to want to be associated with this team in any way, so they probably won't get picked for the finals (Now if they're in the top 8, you've got a problem. They shouldn't be in the finals, so here's where a ban on that comes in).

You've now got to deal with the other 30+ teams at the event all knowing you cheated. That's gotta suck, and I imagine the embarrassment and shame you would feel by knowing that everyone is looking down on you would be pretty effective at deterring you (and anyone else) from doing it again.

I agree that teams should not receieve any awards related to the offending action. But if Team xxx takes their drivetrain home and works on it, they shouldnt be banned from receiving an animation award. However, Engineering Inspiration, and Chairman's, which aren't directly related to the offending action, should not be attainable for such a team, as what they did goes against everything these awards stand for.

In addition, FIRST should write some sort of admonishing letter to the teachers, mentors, and sponsors of the team telling them what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and what will happen if they do it again. I think this is particularly effective because what company is going to want to be affiliated with a known cheater? Odds are they'll be dropped on the spot, or told to clean up their act immediately so it never happens again. Either way, the same effect is achieved.

The problem with all this is that the majority of any given team probably had nothing to do with the offending action, or possibly did not even know of it's occurrence. Most teams have a small group of members that act as the pit crew. These are probably the ones that would say, remove a part and work on it. Yes, the entire team is accountable, but a way needs to be found that adequately gets the message across that cheating will not be tolerated in FIRST, punishes the offending team, but does not ruin the FIRST experience for all those that had absolutely nothing to do with the occurance.

Is it possible to find such a median? probably not. Not to mention the fact that probably 99% of all cheating goes unnoticed, and there is a good percent (manufacturing before the 6 weeks begin) that just can't be detected.
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Last edited by Cory : 29-12-2004 at 13:01.
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