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Originally Posted by RyanMcE
What is up with you people and wanting to restrict discussion? I just make a point and all these people come out of the woodwork hatin' it up. If I could be so bold, could I ask anyone besides Kris bring up a valid point of discussion?
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In my experience, using the term "you people" in a statement is a very divisive way to incite further disruption and discourage all productive forms of communication. The question is how "we people" - you, me, everyone - can all work together to get this thread back on track so we can continue to discuss the core content of your opinions without having to prematurely close it down because of the packaging in which it was delivered and the subsequent negative reactions from those who read it.
When I first read Ryan's initial post in this thread, I'll admit it - the tone of delivery and the pro-penalty biased poll initially made me think, "Here we go again, yet another haughty nose-in-the-air anti-defense rant by the offensive elite". Well thankfully, I held my tongue and read his posts again before I posted. By doing so, those initial (and, typically me, inflamed) opinions eased up quite drastically; in reality, I agree with the majority of his message. I am just disappointed by the manner in which it was presented. Ryan, when you asked people to ignore the presentation and focus on the content, I think you indirectly admitted that the delivery was unnecessarily skewed in the first place. I also agree with you, if we continue to focus and comment on your initial delivery, it really serves no valid purpose. I hope we can all agree to this fact, not dwell upon it any further, and move on toward discussing the real points brought up in this thread, as Mike is trying to promote and Kris is trying to do.
When they were first announced, I wasn't opposed to the existence of the penalties so much as I was apprehensive about the refs' interpretation of the rules and their opinions on when they should be called. After witnessing the first few weeks, I am happy to agree that the penalties are serving to reduce the negative aggressive and damaging defensive behaviors that are unsafe to both humans and robots. I agree that they are allowing the offensive minded teams to better show off their skills and capabilities. And based upon my initial observations of the refereeing this season, I feel that they are still permitting the use of strategic defense, goal blocking, and hard-nosed pushing and shoving (low, of course) which help to balance the game and give alliances of all degrees and combinations of technical complexity a good chance to win any given match if they execute a sound strategy. It is quite a bummer that these penalties go relatively unannounced until the end of the match; if FIRST could develop a system to point out the flags as they are thrown while the action is commencing on the field, I think that would give teams and the crowd a better opportunity to incorporate that info into their determination of who actually won the match once the buzzer sounds. The problem is finding a viable way to implement such a system of realtime penalty communication to the masses.
It's truly hard for teams and the crowd to see the flags on the ground once they are thrown - could we possibly use a blue card/red card concept similar to the yellow card/red card system Andy Baker and the refs implemented at the 2004 IRI? The idea would be to have someone hold up a colored card for each penalty flag thrown so everyone can clearly see it. It would almost be necessary for volunteers to dedicate themselves solely to this task during a match - you don't want to ask the refs to divert any of their attention from the action - they already have enough to focus on during that 2:15. These volunteers would be trained in the rules enough to know why the refs threw each flag and know which point penalties are attached to them. They would observe the refs on each side of the field and respond by holding up the appropriate-colored cards - red or blue. Perhaps these cards could be positioned on an easel board - one for each alliance, or perhaps a centralized board for simplicity - with 10- and 30-point areas in which to display them - a running tote board of penalties for each team. I know that as a spectator, I'd sure appreciate a system like this.