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Unread 19-04-2005, 18:05
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Paul H Paul H is offline
Renegade of Funk
AKA: Paul Huston
FRC #0033 (Killer Bees)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 364
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Re: When do mentors go too far?

Ok, I've read this whole thread, and I've been thinking about this for awhile because there's a mentor on my team who thinks the robot should be 100% student designed and built, so here are the thoughts that I've been playing with in my head for some time now....

Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but I have one question for all of you advocating "student designed and built" bots. Did you use this year's kit chassis and transmissions? If so, you used something designed by engineers and built by professionals, likely with no student input. How is that any better than an engineer designing a chassis, probably with more student help than the kit chassis, and helping the students build it?

How about those of you that come to Cheif Delphi and read the whitepapers and use the designs you see, even if you do make modifications? I could even go as far as to say that looking at other "powerhouse" robots and using their ideas/designs is the same way. Guess What? An engineer came up with something that is on your robot.

Even if you brag that you have no engineering support, or that your robot is 100% student designed and built, the fact is that unless you totally started from scratch, it's not.


Now onto my old team....

I'm speaking for Team 33 on this one, because 1504 doesn't have any engineers yet (but we rely on other team's engineers and ideas). Every year, the Killer Bees turn out beautiful and highly competitive robots. Guess what....their robots are built almost entirely by students. Emphasis on almost. How could you expect a high school student to spend hours calculating gear ratios, torque curves, and anything else like that? Granted, some can and do, and that's great, but I'd say that's the exception, not the rule. What about the material thickness required, or complex machined parts? Most high school students join the team to build something really cool, not sit at a desk for hours doing math.

The first time I saw Jim's drawings for the four speed transmission, I was in awe. I thought "I wish I could have thought of that!" Would I have thought of it? Not a chance. Is it bad that he designed it? I don't see how it would be.

I like to classify 33 as a 50/50 team, where engineers and students work in a partnership to build great robots. In my eyes, this is what FIRST is all about, working WITH professional engineers to build the best possible robot. This is how I was "brought up" in FIRST, it's how I was inspired, and it's how I will strive to conduct any team that I am on in the future, including 1504. Do I believe that engineers should do the work for the students? Absolutely not, but I also believe that teams with no engineering support are at a disadvantage, and that's where this turns into a robot building contest. How can students be inspired to pursue careers in science and technology when they don't interact with anyone in those fields?
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Last edited by Paul H : 19-04-2005 at 18:08.