[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by coldabert

Allow me to give you guys some more information to consider:
Earlier in the match, we were intentionally rammed by another bot while setting near the ramp. They rammed us so hard that it bent the 1/8 inch plate that our front-left caster was mounted to. This disabled our robot from being able to climb the ramp without another robot pushing us. Once, the opposing alliance realized that we could not climb the ramp, they pinned us against a ramp that we could never have climbed (and by "pinned" i mean positioned their robot so that we could not move away from our position, and we were making contact with them when we tried to drive away from them. And... there is no specification in the rules about how far away from robot you must be to pin them. After all, the molecules of each robot are never really being held against each other).


The purpose of the pin rule is to prevent an alliance from scoring a point and then completely stopping the opposing alliance from having any oppurtunity to defend or score.

<-the only smily i have used in 3 years

First of all " Bogus refs" was completely in-appropriate. I think you chose a very bad time to use "the only smiley I have used in three years".

Let's move on to your issues:

As I have said many times, and will continue to repeat: PLEASE read the rules ...

Intentional ramming is EXPLICITLY allowed in the rules this year with one exception. Refer to <G22> (emphasis added):

• Rule <R35> in Section 5.3.4 establishes ROBOT BUMPER ZONEs. Any contact within this zone is generally acceptable, with the exception of high speed long distance ramming...

I suspect they were trying to disrupt your scoring capability. It is clear to me that this type of play is intended and perhaps even encouraged this year. I have developed this opinion based on the following:

• The explicit statement that any bumper zone contact is acceptable in the rule quote above.
• Then you have the required 40 second period where each alliance is required to play "defense".
• And last, but certainly not least, is the incentive of additional size and weight allowance to add bumpers to your robot.

If your team read the rules and did not plan and design a robot for this type of game (using bumpers AND a robust design - 1/8" aluminum sheet is not very strong) then I think you made an error in judgment.

Regarding the pinning rule, I am curious as to how you have inside information regarding the "purpose of the pin rule". Are you on the Game Design Committee?

As i mentioned in an earlier post, this rule/issue WILL be discussed amongst the head referees before next weekend, but please know that it already has been discussed at length and the consensus is that pinning means pinning ... it is really pretty simple (from dictionary.com: "To hold fast; immobilize: The passenger was pinned under the wreckage of the truck)".
edit Additionally, I just realized that the rule actually contains a relevant definition - quoted: "inhibit the movement of another ROBOT while in contact with a field element or border". As you described the incident it sounds like you had to move away from the ramp to make contact with the "pinning" robot - clearly not within the "FIRST" definition./edit
If you are PINNED AGAINST a field element such that you are unable to move away then the 10 second pinning count will be started. It IS LEGAL to pin for 10 seconds - the penalty is only imposed if the offending robot does not back away after 10 seconds. If you don't understand this then please re-read the rule very carefully, deciphering one word at a time if necessary.

Originally Posted by DjAlamose

Pinning on the ramp is acceptable. I don’t have a rule to quote right now but ill work on finding it. A robot can pin another robot on the ramp for any duration of the match. Whether it’s on the top or the sides, I don't know if that makes a difference. Again I will look for the rule unless someone else posts it.

Rule quoted in post 15 of this thread by Wetzel - Thanks Wetzel!

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

only as long as neither robot is on the carpet. In the case in question one robot had been pushed up on the ramp while the other was still on the carpet.

Sorry Ken ... not correct. Per <G24>:

...This rule does not apply if either ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM...