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Posted by Chris, Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

Posted on 4/6/99 11:26 AM MST


In Reply to: Some reasons to go to more than one regional posted by Joe Johnson on 4/5/99 8:28 PM MST:



Thank you for the great response Joe. I do believe reasonable people can disagree. However, I promised some hole poking, so here's my attempt:

Reason #1. I can't argue much against number one. That was a good one. Is that a big enough reason to convince me. No. FIRST should get more sponsors, although that's easier said than done. However, Dave's idea in the post below makes some sense.

Reason #2. Everyone gets to see these well funded teams at nationals. They don't need to see them at the regionals. Teams make notes of who performed well at the regionals and make it a point to see them in action in Florida.

Reason #3. A season of events would be great if the costs were controlled. Here in the Detroit area it would be great since we have around 40 teams and no one would have to travel. I would be all for that.

In the second part, you completely agreed with something I said earlier. The people writing the checks want to see a good result or the checks will stop being written. The 'less fortunate teams' (PC term) in the long run will do poorly and all of their sponsors will stop writing the checks. In the end you may up with only GM, Delphi, Chrysler, Motorola, and a few others left. Shouldn't we do something to keep everyone competitive? Granted, someone is going to finish last every year, but funding is hardly ever pulled due to one bad year. It's a trend of bad performances that is noticed. If the field is not level, the less funded teams will be on the bad end of the trend and will get their funding taken away.

Reason #4. The travel does draw the students. But isn't one regional and a trip to Disney enough travel to draw students? It was for our students.

It's also hard for a team to feel inspired when the cards are stacked against them. Some people start to feel discouraged. Sure, your team may feel more inspired, but at whose expense?

Many teams feel that they are shooting for 'best of second class'. I've had this discussion with teams in the past (no, I didn't bring it up). Why should these teams have to feel second class? The fact is, many teams, because of funding, accept that they will never be able to compete with the likes of the GM teams and the Delphi teams. That's a sad statement. I'm not willing to accept that. That's why I'm so vocal.

-Chris



: Okay, I think that this is going to be a case where reasonable people can disagree, but here goes...

:
: Reason 1 for allowing teams to go to more than one regional:

: FIRST considers 2 events their 'break even' point for supporting a team. I know that this will be hard for teams to understand (especially because much of the kit it donated material), but it takes a lot of bucks to support a single FIRST team. Eric, Lori, Vince, Brian, etc. they all have to be paid. Games have to be developed. Controllers have to be designed & debugged. Etc.

: If you go to less than that (i.e. one regional or the nbationals only) then FIRST reckons that it looses money on their $4K fee. This is offset by teams that go to more than one regional.

:
: Reason 2 for allowing teams to go to more than one regional:

: I think that the overall competition level is raised by good teams being seen at more than one regional.

: In addition to the teams getting better, all teams will get better by seeing more of the 'well financed' teams.

: I know that I was in awe the first time I saw the Sanders/Nashua team and the PSNH/Manchester team (Blue Lightening) at that first regional I attended. For me, it was unfair how good these teams were and, dang it, I was going to be that good next year!

: I hope the Wildstang, HOT, The Bomb Squad, Chief Delphi, Team Hammond and other multi regional teams inspire the same kind of competitive juices in other teams.

:
: Reason 3 for allowing teams to go to more than one regional:

: There is a ton of work done on these robots, using them more is a better use of the equipment. I think that it is in the long-term interest of FIRST to develop into a season of events rather than one or two events.

: As it stands, teams generally go to 2 events after 1000's of hours and dollars spent making the robot. Like it or not, the entire season is judged by the results of a very few minutes of running. Yes, I know that we are all winners, yada yada yada. But... the fact remains that our school district supporters and our sponsor supporters ask us, 'What place did you finish?' This is the dilemna we have. We talk about winning on many levels, but the main yardstick used by the folks who sign the checks is the place we finish in few matches held over two weekends (with robots that we have had almost no practice with).

: Contrast this with the various sports teams that are supported by the school district. Believe me, the true costs of supporting a varsity football team bury the cost of our little robot competition (you guys from Texas are free to support me on this one ;-). Other sports have many chances to have a winning season. I think that this is what FIRST should strive for. Multiple regionals are in some ways a substitute for the lack of a true FIRST season (Mr. B., if you use this as yet another chance to pitch your, 'keep the game the same' argument, I will scream ;-).

:
: Reason 4 for allowing teams to go to more than one regional:

: The I stands for INSPIRATION -- the T does not stand for teaching.

: If teaching happens, great. But this whole FIRST thing is about inspiration. That is the sole reason I am in it.

: The teaching element of going to more than one regional is not relevant.

: This is about inspiration.

: I do believe that the 'bigness' of the events and going to more events plays a significant role in the Inspiration Dept.

: Our team travels. That is a big draw in the our particular school. FIRST is impacting our entire community because there are kids who are interested just because they think getting on our FIRST team is a free ticket to a lot of cool places (by the way, our students quickly learn that they would be better off working for MCD's flipping burgers if all they wanted was an easy way to get to WDW, but that is a message for another day...)

: Our relatively small team of 32 students is impacting an entire high school because a lot of folks in our school are asking themselves, 'What do I have to do to get on that cool FIRST team?'

: FIRST is about cultural change. Really. Multiple regionals help us in that effort.


: Well...

:
: I am going to leave it at that for now.

: Replies are encouraged...

: Joe J.